EP 3.16 BROLGAS, BEUGS AND BALLSACKS: GORDON HOOKEY ON SO-CALLED australia

Transcript

Hey, Matt here. This is a reminder that the traditional owners of the land on which this episode and every episode of Hung Up were recorded were the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. This is unseeded Aboriginal land. Always was, always will be. Hey, welcome back to Hung Up. This week we’re talking about Gordon Hooky, A Moriality, a survey which is at UNSW Galleries until the 2nd of October. A Moriality is the first survey of three decades of the artist’s work. My name’s Matt.

Yo, I’m Aiden. Alright, this was a sick show. And the big headline for you and I, which is usually the case for stuff that we really like, was that we laughed our butts off. True. We were laughing. We were exclaiming. We were shouting. We were checking for each other’s reactions. We were just vibing. First off, do you have any, like what was your favorite work?

I don’t have a favorite work, but definitely a favorite room. So, cause this is a survey, it’s got that all-encompassing sense, which is really exciting. You know, it’s like a gallery takeover where like everywhere you look, there’s like more and more and more. How many works are in this show? Like 40 works. Yeah, something like that.

And, um, as you work through, like you, it’s like a work in kind of the foyer before you get in. And then there’s like the newly commissioned work. There’s a room to the side. There’s like another room. And I was in like the last room, like the deepest room. Yeah. And where the walls are all painted black. Yeah. It was all dark. And I think we both love this work. It was like in the center of the room is like a boxing bag, like a light boxing bag.

And it’s been painted. There’s text wrapped around the top boxing gloves underneath it. And then kind of to the left of that is like a small canvas. It’s like Aboriginality victorious in red at the top of this canvas. And then there’s like, um, an indigenous dude. I think he was like, he was like a character.

Yeah. He had glasses, like kind of dorky glasses on that were like sort of outsized and like sort of, um, he was like thinner than the other, like fat, like English piggy that he was victorious. So he was like standing on him and like the piggy had like, I don’t know. I don’t know if he actually did, but from memory he had like knocked out cartoon eyes.

But this, this had a thing next to it. This is like, what I was going to say was like, this guy was like, they were like, he’s like a character in like indigenous art history or something. He was like a political character. But yeah, anyway, so this work, it’s like a pretty small canvas, like way smaller than the rest of the stuff in the show. And there’s like, yeah, this like skinny kind of nerdy, indige guy with like, uh, black, yellow and red boxing gloves and like skinny arms.

And he’s got like this funny little chest hair and like armpit hair, which was like textured and, and like popping off the canvas. And he’s like, just knocked out this figure. Who’s like this, like cartoon, like fat butter bean pig with like cartoon X out eyes, blood coming out of his like pig nose and his mouth, like full on, like bluebirds swirling around his head, like knocked out.

And the indigenous guy is like standing on his chest. Like we fucking won. I think, yeah, that room, when I walked into that room, I’m like, fuck, like that hit me the hardest. Yeah. And, and, and Aidan didn’t mention outside, like hung to the left and right of this painting is the box, like the boxing gloves from the painting.

So starting with the like English flag, like the union Jack, um, boxing gloves, which have got like union Jacks on their cuffs and then crosses like, um, like Jesus crosses on the back of the hands. And then spiked Bibles that said like, um, um, the good news Bible and like the Holy book Bible, um, with, yeah, like little spikes coming out of them.

And then the Aboriginal, um, gloves are like these sick, like black and yellow and red gloves with like hearts and, um, sons and like a kind of arrow sort of motif on motif on them. Um, and yeah, we just love stuff like that where it sort of pops out of the painting and like draws this like new plane of existence, um, for the, you know, the work in the gallery.

Yeah. And I guess like boxing culture and boxing history is like pretty laden and interesting too. Right. Like just even the gloves as objects or like ornaments, the way they’re hung there, like it evokes some kind of like, I forget, I think it was in the UK. There was like an Irish boxing gym and it was like five or 10 bucks ago. And it was like some Irish priest actually. And he’s like, there’s like the longest running boxing gym.

He’d been running it for like 30 years as like mad, um, history of like boxing and working class culture. And I guess like Protestant culture as well. But yeah, the textures and like the feeling of like boxing gloves and like boxing bags really like speak to me on like a few levels. And I think that was, yeah, part of the, I mean, like the metaphors and stuff are like right there, but it feels like very deep and very grounded in like a type of reality that I’m like connected to through like, I don’t know, like training and, and like teaching and that kind of like discipline through physical striking and stuff.

Um, so yeah, that was the shit that like got me hard. I was like fucking damn. And then there’s like this huge, um, also in that wall, it got me hard. Nah. Um, this huge fucking like Pauline Hanson Nazi mural. And we were saying like, that had been shown before, but it was like literally too big for these small UNSW like underground galleries. So they had to lean it up. It’s like, it would literally like, I wonder, yeah, they had to like bring it in on a angle as well. Um, yeah. How about you? What was like stand out for you?

Um, my favorite one was yet that would go back one. Yeah. This was my favorite one. It’s a scene in a pub and it’s a send up of like an old racist, like cartoon. I think it was. Um, and the caption says all the natives laughed as the cruel joke was played on poor little pinky. And it’s just like the sickest, like tableau of, um, native animals. So we’ve got like, I’ll just rattle them off roll call. We got, um, so some extinct ones too. We’ve got a brolga and a thylacine.

There’s a dingo. There’s two kookaburras. There’s a snake. There’s a crock. And all of these guys are laughing at the chair being pulled out from under this like heinous pig faced, like suited and like bulging buttoned character. All of them have got this big fucking laugh on their face. They’re all smoking bongs and joints and they’re like drinking VBs and Forexes. And there’s like a coffee going on the table. Um, it’s so dense with like reference and meaning and, and overall this like

joyous humor, which, which feels like such a victory to me, you know, like, like we, we’re like, we obviously like going to acknowledge at the top of this show that, you know, this battle has, has far from being won, but this just feels like such a triumph, this, this painting. And then, um, another thing that I noticed was that there’s like a send up of, of the Van Gogh, like sunflowers in the back behind the kangaroo. And it’s so good. It’s like this kangaroo, like scratching his head and like laughing and like got a massive bifter in its hand, but then, um, Van Gogh behind.

And then you can see that they’re in a pub by the sort of pub window. And then in the background is, um, the parliament house in Canberra with the Aboriginal flag flying above it. Um, yeah, just a seriously cool, fucking funny painting that, you know, would just be endless fun to live with and like serious fun too. You know, it’s, it’s not just silly, funny. It’s like making a fucking good point.

Yeah, totally agreed. This painting was fucking moving as hell. Like just to give you one more, like we’ll post some stuff or you guys should check it out. But like kookaburra joint in one wing and big glass of like plonk in the other, like cackling. And, um, like all the animals are laughing. Like Goanna is laughing, but yeah, it’s like, it’s really animal fun.

Oh, I missed Goanna. Like we know the last scene of Animal Farm is all the like, um, working class animals are like looking in at like the pub or the restaurant or whatever. And they’re like, the humans are there and the pigs are there and the pigs have like conspired against the rest of the animals. Yeah. And it’s like the last page and they’re like animals looking in who are like all the native animals, I guess, in one version of this story, not the story that, that Gordon, Gordon has like rewritten that.

And they go like the final line is like, and the animals looked from like the humans to the pigs and back to the humans and they couldn’t tell like the difference. And so there’s like, yeah, this kind of like simple and earnest, like, you know, straight up Animal Farm, like morality to a lot of this stuff. Like that’s where the pig and stuff comes from. It’s also brutal.

And then one part of it that we didn’t mention is we’ve just got like, like the indigenous guy, like the Aboriginal man in like a thong, you can just see his leg and his hand. He’s like pulling the chair out from a little pinky. And then the caption, which I think is also the title of the painting. All the natives laughed as the cruel joke was played on poor little pinky. Like, was it cruel? Like, nah.

Yeah. So like this touches on something that we wanted to bring up, which was that all of the press around this is shy of the dirty fucking humor in this show. And like the humor is what made me so proud to see it and like so proud to be surrounded by this culture. Like one of the last things I noticed on the way out was it’s kind of right at the front of the show.

It’s just, you’re presented with this huge explosion of color that it’s hard to start in an orderly manner left to right. You know, we just like run straight in to look at all the fun stuff. And, um, the, one of the last things on the way out that I noticed was like a little kangaroo painted in like a very traditional indigenous style, but it’s got like big nuts with like an Aboriginal flag with a heart on it, you know?

And it just, it made me nearly well up. I was so proud to see that kangaroo. And I just thought it’s so cool. We looked at, um, the memory of you, we looked at Saturday paper, looked at an ABC, like radio online interview, and no one said bong. No one said balls, nuts. Like it’s, it’s, it’s, it makes some sense that ABC, but like memory of you, Saturday paper, like, come on guys. Like that’s such a huge element in all this work is the humor and like the nastiness of it.

Um, that I think is, is incredibly powerful. And it’s, and it’s also like, what a good draw if like the point of writing your article is to get people in, like fucking say that there’s nuts and, you know, dicks and stuff in this. And we saw, um, I saw like, like a mom and her child and like, she obviously like walked straight in. I don’t know. There’s like a little note at the front. Like, this is kind of a hectic exhibition just so you know.

And, um, I’m like laughing at one of the things that’s like, um, fuck, I forget what it said, but it was, I was laughing at some rude language and she like brings a kid over. She’s like, oh, this better be like, this could be funny, like a funny picture. And she like draws her kid away immediately. You know, it’s like, um, maybe not for young, young kids. White family. I mean, the kid was fucking 12 years old. He’s been on the internet. He’s fucking abusing people on fortnight. He should be seeing this shit.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. No, I take that back. It’s for everyone. It’s for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what my sister would think. I just want to read a little bit of the text for the painting we were just talking about. But it’s like from an interview from Gordon, he’s like, I’m trying to show this ugly, horrible, terrible reality in maybe a beautiful or a funny way.

Humor for me has been a device to seduce people into the harsh political realities of my people. And I’m like, fuck yes. Like this is a tough exhibition like to be in. And it’s like, you know, you’re going to feel your complicity and like just the realities of like contemporary indigenous experience here.

And like, so you should, but like, I even feel more comfortable and like, yeah, I don’t know if comfortable is the right word, but like the humor is like an unparalleled entry point into tough stuff. Like it always has been like, it is one of our main devices now, right? Like in the face of terror and horror, like the way that, you know, it seems like one of our most powerful tools for coping and for continuing to exist, which you must.

And even for being able to maintain the conversation. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It’s humor. Yeah. It’s humor. So, yeah, I completely agree. Like I dig those publications, but yeah, it does seem like pretty fucking key is the jokes. And like to miss that is to kind of be dishonest about, I think what this show means.

So one of the like subjects, one of the recurring subjects in this show is Pauline Hanson. He’s just got the, like the meanest, like best, bestest send up of her. It’s like this one’s like, what does it say at the bottom there? It says pork. Wait, zoom in on that a bit. It’s Pauline Hanson’s brick shithouse.

So it’s like a kind of, is this like an isometric view? It’s like a sort of three quarter, like perspective view of a shithouse, like just a brick building with a toilet in it. And it’s got like a swastika pull chain to flush the toilet. And the Aboriginal flag is the toilet paper.

And then at the foot of the toilet is like all of the like, what are they like a laxative and like anal soothing, like medications. Like anisole, stool stiffener, stool stiffener, laxatives and some kind of pills for shitting. Ford pills, pills for shitting. And what Aiden said to me, like in the show, like, can you imagine how frustrating and like infuriating was the word you used?

It must be to see this fucking woman on the news every night or whatever, doing whatever despicable shit she’s getting up to. And then like having to like, like, you know, just like, I don’t know, absorb that somehow. And yeah, this, this, all, all of these works, especially like this one, but there’s plenty of send ups where he’s just like getting his like vengeance back on her.

And actually that, that word like revenge or vengeance, like kind of brings up one of the big themes that I noticed in this show, which was like thinking of Pauline Hanson’s violence as speech acts of like violent speech acts. Like, you know, Aiden, this like theory of locutionary and elocutionary speech. It’s like the idea that in our speech, we do actions.

So if I ask you, this was the example I heard recently. It was like, if I ask you to mow the lawn and you refuse, I could be offended or hurt by that or something like that. It’s not just that we’ve said words to each other. It’s that you’ve actually done something, you know, and, and using that kind of trite example and blowing it up to the national stage on national TV where Pauline Hanson is either directly or indirectly like committing violence against indigenous people.

And not just indigenous people, but people of like, of any other race other than white. And like, I don’t know, all kinds of fucking dumb shit that she says. So words and the power of speech, especially the violent power of speech was a big theme in this show. Big agree. Like one thing you said to me was like, you’re like the show’s so angry.

And it’s like, yeah, the show is angry as hell. And at once it’s intense to be surrounded by like the reality of that violence. And it’s like depicted violence, but it’s pointing to like, yeah, like violence performed through language, which I want to stay on actually. Yeah.

Cause there’s a lot of words in hookies paintings, lots of like text, you know, we’re also depicting like literal violence. And yeah, we’ve seen that before. Like the images of like white settlers being impaled with like spears, but I’ve never seen them depicted the way he does.

It’s like almost comic book. Like, cause it’s so colorful. Like, I think we saw one that was like, like fine pencil, like graphite drawings. And that was quite brutal. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s kind of a, it was kind of a red blood. Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. I do remember that, which was, that was at Bumali, I think. Yeah. Which was kind of like, which was neat. And like, we don’t want to take away from the power of that too.

It was like a, it was elegant. And hooky is capable of total elegance too. But his depictions of especially violence against these like oppressive English figures are cruel and brutal too. Like they’re mean as well as that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting. That does make it feel.

Yeah. It’s like a different kind of violence. It is like a cartoon violence in a way. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, you’re talking about the spinning bluebirds. Like a Disney thing where you get knocked out. It’s a really, yeah, it’s cool to have that parallel of like depictions of violence. But yeah, I don’t want to move away from the language. I was just, it’s an, it’s an angry exhibition and it feels like at once overwhelming in some ways to be surrounded by rooms and rooms of historical and current brutal violence.

Like all the way down from like, I don’t know, what do you call that type of like emotional violence or, or like structural violence, but then also literal violence. Like right now you might, well, you are still killed in custody and beaten up, but there’s like, obviously now all these types of like, you know, traumatic violence, you know, whether or not someone lays hands on you.

But yeah, it’s, it’s also just like the, the point that I’m trying to get at is just like the violence and anger seem like at once intense and overwhelming, but also it’s like, it’s like not enough. It’s like nowhere near enough at the same time. It’s not even justified. It’s like, you could go on and on and on and like never stop. And it still wouldn’t be enough.

Yeah. Like vengeance or rage or anger. Like, and you’re just living with that forever. And that’s kind of what was like flooding through me when I was seeing like that, when I said to you about like, this is how I must feel to see Pauline Hanson speak. Yeah. It really put that feeling in our hearts. Really powerful.

Should we speak a little bit about the words in his? Yeah. So like, like that, that thing of speech and words and like word play is in almost every painting, I think like, or if not all of them, very many of them. It’s things like, um, using like a pun, like a visual pun or, or a literal pun to kind of get at something.

Like we saw one that was like houses are not for investment where the, the mint part of investment was like mean. Um, and then Aiden noticed that the mean part had like a little red error, like spell checker line underneath it, which we thought was cool. What do you think is going on there where it’s like so many little, like, are they even puns?

Like I’ve got one here, like extinct, like E K S T O extinct. That’s like kind of like a good exemplar of like the way languages. It’s like this big painting with like the globe in the middle. And there’s like a huge red, like stamp, like extinct over this big canvas. And then there’s like this fucking crazy American, like, I don’t even know who that is.

He’s like Yankee fucking doodle. Yankee fucking doodle with like an Osama bin Laden, like caricature on a stick. And like a big ass ring and like dollar signs. But then it says like the stamp that he’s holding is like extinct, like E K S T I N K extinct.

Like those little jokes. What’s that? Like, is it like Scott’s or whatever I was like thinking of where there’s all these, like even the Bible one, it’s like, holy Bible. Like, and it’s like B I H B L E. Like everything’s kind of, what is that? It’s like sounding, sounding out. I mean, it makes me think like we’re playing with like the English language, like the colonizers language.

And that’s like, yeah, something you, like there was one of the other paintings, like the big mural. It was like describing fucking colonizers being like, what is this animal? Like referring to a kangaroo. And they’re like, whatever they said, like they heard something like kangaroo. And that was interesting. That was like, kind of makes me think, is that kind of what’s happening here with this language stuff?

Totally. Yeah. Taking like control of this oppressive system. Yeah. Cause like, yeah, English is the language you and I use. And it’s like, on the one hand, it’s kind of like, you know, it’s a tool. It’s innocent. Like it’s kind of like blameless. But then like, it is the system by which millions of people were oppressed.

And like, you know, it’s, it’s the, it’s the like tool of any civilization, you know? And so it’s, it’s such a salient, like structure to fuck with and to mess around with and get your jabs in. We’ve seen this like example in like many like sort of civil rights and like political issues of the day where people want to, I think rightly so, like take some control away from that system.

Um, and like, yeah, modify your language in a way or modify spellings in a way that reflects your identity, your political alignment, you know, things like that. And it’s powerful. Language is a powerful thing. Like, like we, um, you know, we’re, we’re pretty good spellers, like everyone.

And, you know, seeing the disruption to that feels like a real good ripple in your reality. You’re like, I’m so used to like that word extinct and now it’s extinct. Like, you know, yeah. It’s clever. Yeah, no, it’s, it’s really cool. So it’s, so that, that sort of like big theme of words and speech and the power of speech, it goes from big, broad, funny, like cock and bold humor to sly, change a letter around kind of like little gestures that, that permeate everything in this.

And yeah, like you said, like a ripple, it almost feels like a rupture to me. It’s like, it’s funny. Yeah. Cause it’s working with like the brain and the like autopilot. And it is very jarring. You ever, like, I was trying to spell like carelessly when I was writing the other night and I like have spellchecker turned off in my writing app because I want no computer telling me how to write.

And like, I couldn’t spell carelessly like five times. And that was really difficult. Like to see, I was like, you know, you’re like, it just looks wrong. So yeah, that’s really cool. I just like, yeah, it just speaks to like the deep mental reality of language and words that just like a misspelling can really like sit with you.

Like even this one that we have open now, it’s like this fucking, it’s like a dip dick kangaroo, like this fucking really sick kangaroo. He actually reminds me a little bit of, um, you remember like the Simpsons where they tried to add the dog character to itchy and scratchy and he was like a mad cunt, like skater.

Cause the, the rue has like sunglasses with like the Indige flag on them. He’s like pointing at you. And he’s like, you, don’t you never, ever forget that this here so-called land, Australia is Aborigine land. And the Australia, the word Australia is in lowercase and everything else is an uppercase.

Yeah. And then the second half of the dip dick with the kangaroo thumbs upping now, it says it always was and always will be Aboriginal land. Okay. And even that, well, it actually says, you said Aboriginal land, but it’s Aborigine land. Oh, Aborigine land. Yeah. Which is like, that was kind of the rupture that I was pointing to. Like we’ve heard that, that’s like the most famous refrain, like always was, always will be like Aboriginal land, but like to change it to like Aborigine land.

Like even that makes me kind of rethink about that. It renews the sentence in your mind. Which is, which is powerful because yeah, in the memo review, um, they spent a pretty long, like the first couple of paragraphs talking about like the power of acknowledgement and acknowledgements of country. And like they, the rider even had to say like, you know, they’re powerful and they’re necessary, but they also are performative exercises in PC, whatever.

Yeah, exactly. So we, we need to acknowledge that. And this feels like, fuck, like cool. Like make it feel fresh. Make me not feel like this is, this is just a, like something you have to say. Yeah, totally. Like, like it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s so easy for that to slip into just this like lame gesture. And that’s what I love about, about this is that like keeping it fresh and saying it as, as you understand it.

And as you like respectfully, truly believe it, you know, like, like I, I don’t really like people reading the same script, like at the top of each, like whatever lecture or whatever you’re going to go and do. Like, it just feels like disrespectful to just like, it feels lazy just to copy and paste the script. Yeah, it’s a tough one. It’s a bit of, it’s a bit of a tough one to like talk on as two white guys.

But it’s definitely, I’ll at least say it’s exciting to feel like something I’ve heard before, you know, to have that refresh. Like you said, like that just feels politically powerful. Yeah. And that’s like, that’s a dope artwork. And then the last bit of text that we didn’t talk about is bannered across the top of the two paintings.

And they’re, they’re pushed right up together next to each other. It says reiteration in perpetuity. And the in, the word in is split over the two canvases, which I loved. I just love that. It’s so clever. What a beautiful like art gesture just coming through all this. Yeah.

Okay. I want to get onto another theme. So another big theme in this show was nature’s power and nature fighting back. Yeah. Right. So we want to talk about this painting, Reckoning, which is kind of a direct response to the senior sergeant at the time, Chris Hurley, who I think is like accepted as a cunt.

Yeah. Widely accepted. Basically, Mulrunji Dumaji, 36 years old, died in custody after a fight or basically being beaten to death, died like an hour after being taken in. And there was a pretty big backlash in the community. They burnt down like Hurley’s house.

People were fucking mad. And the police station. Yeah. Burnt down the police station. And it was like, I think it was like the first class action lawsuit. It was like the entire community against the cops for like breaching the racial discrimination act. So yeah, in this painting, we’re like imagining another history where Hurley wasn’t acquitted

of manslaughter. Yeah. But where he actually faced his like just reckoning. Yeah. He got his dues. Yeah. Yeah. This is like a court. Right in the foreground, you see all these kangaroo ears. And then mid ground, there’s Hurley in front of a fire with smoke pouring into his face. A massive big kangaroo with the like big wig on it and a massive sledgehammer slamming

the, there is a name for that, but whatever. Gavel. Yeah. Well, the gavel slamming, he’s slamming a big sledgehammer gavel onto the podium or whatever. He’s yelling guilty with, he’s got this big, proud Aboriginal nutsack, which we love. Wait, it’s, it’s an Aboriginal flag painted nutsack.

You’re not just saying. Yeah. Should I say that again? No, just leave that.

And yeah, Chris Hurley, diminutive figure. He’s, he’s shat himself. He’s doing a fire and he’s pissing his pants and he’s got, he’s been chained up. And the court room is packed with these kangaroos, these, these peaceful and judging, judgmental kangaroos, which are thinking they’ve got their arms crossed or hands together, um, looking

kind of witnessing this like historical day reckoning. And it says W R E C K wreck con C O N in. Aidan, have you heard the term kangaroo court before? No. Okay. Kangaroo court, an unofficial court held by a group of people in order to try someone regarded,

especially without good evidence as guilty of a crime or misdemeanor. So they’re kind of like flipping the, the idea of a kangaroo court over in this one. I just, I realized that when I was in the toilet earlier and, um, and, um, flying over the scene is a black bird.

And yeah, just this, like, again, this like, um, seizing of like the narrative and, and, and just, he said in an interview, Gordon, Gordy said, um, I like, I don’t really care for historical facts. I’m kind of paraphrasing. And like, I just want to paint my version of history. And this is such a powerful and, and valid contribution to the history of an event.

You know, the, the, the feeling in your heart of what it should have been is like, to me, just as valid as what is written down in the papers and, you know, the archives of our history. Well, especially when we’re talking about like gross injustices as well. Yeah. We’ve already like abandoned truth and honesty.

Yeah. We’ve completely warped. Like, I think whoever the head of the cops, the Queensland cops at the time, like dug his heels in heart and was like, the cops are not racist. Like we treat Aboriginals just like everyone else. Like we’re saints basically. And like, that’s fucking wild. Yeah. That is that same, like Hansonian linguistic violence is just gaslighting beyond all gaslighting.

And what the fuck do you do in the face of that? It was cool. In like one of hookies interviews, he’s like, it needs to be fun for me. It needs to make me feel good. I can’t feel like shit. Like it needs to be playful. Yeah. And like, I bet it was playful depicting this fucking pissed and shit himself hurly, like

whimpering, like guilty. Like, yeah, that looks like fun. That does look like bad fun. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think we’ve covered like a lot of what we can and we could keep going. Like, I think it’s important that you just go and see the show. But there was one more like a big theme that I wanted to cover and like, let me know if you have more, but it was like the sense of like doing and protest art. Um, and I was thinking about the big banners.

So like it was commissioned for this show. And I guess there were a couple other banners to throughout the show. Like as you walk in, like these big double-sided banners and they’re like, it’s interesting because they’re meant to be held, like meant to be. And you were saying like, some of them have the, um, like cut out pieces for like dealing

with the wind. And so that it doesn’t like blow over in the wind. You like cut holes. Yeah. Cause they’re so big. Yeah. And that, that was interesting, right? Yeah. Well, like it kind of, it hit on an interesting point for me when we were reading the memo review article, I think at the front of the exhibition, it says these were purposed for

the public realm. Yeah. And in the, in the article, it kind of wound up saying like, um, you know, this was shown at an invasion day rally and now it’s like in a gallery, you know, and it’s sort of, to me that kind of like neutered, it’s like political power a little bit, you know, like.

To you, Matt, or to you, the author of the memo review article? Well, to me, Matt. Yeah. Yeah. Um, hungup.au on Instagram. Yeah. And it’s, it’s, um, it’s, it’s just like a sort of funny, like sad thing about like, we were kind of talking about this maybe off the mic earlier about like the kind of ineffectuality of like the gallery in, in the political arena, you know, sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s quite, there was like three other, three or four. So we like saw the show, had coffee, saw the show again, and there was four people in there. Yeah. Now, like imagine the vibe and how those works feel compared to whatever. Seeing them at an innovation day rally. Tens of thousands of people screaming and protesting and fighting.

They’re completely different. It’s interesting because it’s like a painting is one thing. And like, yeah, Gordon was also saying in an interview, he’s like, I did sculpture at uni. He went to Kofa as well. But he’s like, when I got, when I graduated, it was kind of hard to like do sculptures or to have sculptures perform in the way that I wanted to. So I kind of was drawn to painting and oils and like posters and because it was easier

to. It was more convenient was the word he used. Yeah. Right. More convenient. And I was thinking it’s more convenient because yeah, you can’t really hold sculptures in the same way to like scream a point. Like, like a flat image is always going to be travel further in that sense. But he also inflected that with a sense of like, just practically, like in terms of like

in terms of showing in galleries, like you can put more paintings up than you can put sculptures. Yeah. Interesting dude. We’re hoping that the interview we’ve, we’ve asked for gets to be tacked onto the end of this too. Yeah. That would be really sick. No shade. Gordy. If you don’t want to talk to us. Yeah. Oh yeah. If you don’t want to talk. We were speaking to Emily at the front desk and she was like, he doesn’t have email.

Yeah. Yeah. He doesn’t have an email. He doesn’t, he doesn’t want to pick up the phone. He’s like, he’s pretty hard to get in contact with. Yeah. And Matt, does he have an iPhone? And I’m like, I reckon he has the cat phone. Yeah. Cool. He’s got a tough phone. He seems like a fucking cool dude. It was cool dude. They had, sorry, they had a video of him like in his studio as well.

Yeah. Just getting interviewed or something. In like hard yakka gear, like surrounded by like a bunch of stuff and like stuff that you could see in the show. Yeah. Like probably like messy artist studio. Yeah. Living amongst your heart. I don’t know what the whole thing was, but it was like where he was being shot. It was fucking rammed.

And that’s like, do you have a minimal neat studio and everything’s packed up? Are you that artist? Or is like everything out all the time? I want to be the second one too. I mean, look at this place. But you are the first one. Am I? Look at this place. You’re the, you’re, oh, sorry. You’re the shit everywhere artist. Yeah. And I am the.

Yeah. You’re the minimal artist. Minimal, minimal, minimal. Super minimal. We’ll talk about that in another episode maybe. Yeah. So I think this is going to, this segment’s coming to an end now. And if you’re lucky, listener, there’ll be an interview following. But otherwise, know that we’ve reached out and we did ask.

We wrote a letter, a handwritten letter. We wrote a letter. Because we felt strongly about it. Yeah. Cool, man. Thank you for coming to that exhibition with me today. It was a fucking sick way to spend a Saturday. No worries. Thanks for the coffee. All right. Thanks, everyone. Thanks to Emily. If she gets our letter safely into the hands of Gordon Hockey, new friend of the pod, whether

or not he decides to talk with us. I don’t care. Yeah.

Okay. I bought a loaf of bread the other day and I was there so early, nine in the morning. I’m not an early riser. But the bread loaf was still hot. And I like, I cradled it against my body like a newborn child walking back up, briskly back

up the street. Because it was like, I can either like have a shower before work or I can go and get some fresh bread. And so I chose the bread. And this thing, this motherfucker was so warm that when I put butter on it and I was like looking at the radio or something and like, like sort of staring at the wall in my room, the butter like slid off and landed on my fucking gene co’s.

And now there’s a big butter stain on these motherfuckers. All right. On the theme of stains, I went to Frida’s for a cocktail and I sat in gum. Oh yeah. That’s no good. Let’s turn around. Let’s see if it’s still there. I’m not getting up. Okay. I’ve also got one more little food anecdote.

Yeah. We had an amazing party on Monday. Thank you, Griffin. And they put me on sausage sizzle duty, which was pretty fun. I actually haven’t cooked for that many people in a while. And I kind of thought like the demand would be a little bit higher. I didn’t go crazy and embarrass myself. Like, let me just rest assured, listener, that all the sausages were eaten, including all

the veg or ones. My brother’s sausage looked fucking feral. Yeah. Everyone was like, oh, that’s scary. When I worked at like a fucked up kitchen in the UK and we would have like, it was like for a posh burger restaurant, but they wouldn’t give us, the guy- Oh, for lunch. When he hired me, he was like, and we get to have the burgers for lunch.

And it was just a straight up lie. I never got to have one burger. That’s so fun. They’re those like pink, pink, like they’re the opposite of the snags we’ve been getting from your job. Yeah. And it said beef on the outside. And I was like, really? The sausages we get from that Matt and I normally eat are like 90% beef. Like they just taste so right.

And they’re just meat. And they’re so classic. 10% fat. These ones are the opposite. Like it’s all gristle and they’ve been fucking cubed and chewed and it’s fucking grim. And I saw them in the packet and I was like, I don’t want to eat one of those. But anyway, I’m sure they were lovely. I did my best and I did some like nice onions to go with it to kind of like make it go down

easier. And you guys had some, what the fuck? This place is like such a cool party. We had the white, white, white, white bread, like straight up wonder why. And that shit fucking went hard. I gotta say. Totally. Yeah. Just a bit of tomato sauce. Um, and then, um, you know, you kind of have a, you have like a pace you want to work at

if, if you’re like, if everyone’s watching you as well, like you don’t want to be slouching. You’re like, you’re rushing. And so I’m, I’m rushing, I’m getting the onions going. I’m chopping some more for the next batch. I’m like prepping and cooking and prepping at the same time. And I go to reach for the olive oil bottle in, in a rush. And I knock over a little, little, little bottle next to it.

And I, I like, don’t even pay any mind cause I’m busy. And then I turn back around and I see green all over their countertop and like spots of green and the onions that I’ve just put a whole thing on. And it’s fucking green food coloring. Some fucking share house, uh, citizen has like just neglected to put the lid back on after

making their like green cake or whatever. Easy mistake. Listener. I did that when I moved house, I forgot to put the lid on my tamari and I got tamari flavored belongings. Yeah. There’s something so tragic about spilling and like dropping food on the ground. It’s like, if you drop a soup on the ground, like, yeah, if you drop a fucking like ham

and cheese croissant on the ground, like I’m probably going to dust it off and eat it. But like, I want to drop food ever again. In my entire life. So bad. All right. I got a part two to your hot dog story. Okay. Don’t know if you were there. So it’s like 11 o’clock now. Yeah. I miss the snags. All the bands have played. My tummies are rumbling and we’re back on the hots at house red.

Oh, sick. Yeah. Me and we met, uh, Roma rules on Instagram. Yeah. And I’m like, I’m fucking hungry. And the white bread is back out and the medley margarine is back out. And they actually have a sick, like big gas cooked up there at this house. This place was an industrial kitchen before. Big, beautiful. They said it was a pub in the olden days.

Oh, fuck. Yeah. The kitchen’s dope. Yeah. It’s a sick fit. And like on like resting on like it, maybe it’s the dish rack or just some kind of like platform in the kitchen is just like a Tupperware container with like goo in it. It looks like. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You saw this shit. It’s like, I don’t know what the fuck it was, but it was like. Nah, it wasn’t dough, bro.

It wasn’t dough. It was like a starter or something. No, it was like cheesy and it had like some green shit in it, like some chives vibes. Oh, shit. And it was more like a pancake batter. Anyway, all these fucked up people are like standing around and we just start frying the

batter. And at some point someone’s like, don’t eat it all. Like it’s someone’s lunch, like a container of. But anyway, so the method was like, there was like four slices of the wonder white left and we were buttering it. And Roma’s like, if you butter it, you get to have one. And I’m like looking around at like my four friends. I’m like, you’re hungry. There’s four slices of bread.

Everyone’s going to get one. The chef’s going to get one. And these little like screwed up little like cooked cheesy pancakes. People were like, it’s eggs. It’s vegan. And like, no one knew what it was. No one knows. We’re just frying it up. And then my like favorite contribution was, you know, we’re cooked and we’re frying up

this like blob food. And a little bit of it is like now starting to like stick to the pan. Okay. But I can see that that’s going to be like crispy and good. And like whoever the fuck’s cooking is like trying to get it off with like a metal plastic spat. Pause. Rookie mistake. Yeah. Fucking rookie mistake. Just leave it. If it’s sticking, just leave it.

If it’s sticking, just leave it. If it starts to burn, throw it outside again. A hundred. Yeah. Watch the pan, start again. Just leave it. But then I come in hard with like metal spat and I do it upside down. So it really gets under it. And I fucking peel off this perfect like crisp of dough. And I put that on the chef’s sandwich. I’m like, you get this one. Yeah.

Like you get the crispy bit. And a little bit of Tommy sauce on top. Someone was putting some of that like really good MSG chili sauce on it. Fuck yeah. I forget what that’s called, but that shit goes hard. And yeah, like that little fucking gross ass sandwich was like way better than it had any right to be at that time.

Yeah. It sounds gross. Yeah. It’s gross. I got, I got some pics. We’ll put them in the feed. Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s going on in Maine. Yeah. All right. You have been listening to hung up. My name’s Matt. I’m Aiden. Thank you so much for listening. Everyone. We appreciate you. We love you all individually. Yeah. Really like happy with the community that is like starting to build around this podcast,

really enjoying this project. Please share the pod. Give us a review on Spotify. Give us a review on Apple podcasts. Like keep hitting us up. Yeah. We love that. We love the DMs. Yeah. Don’t stop. All right. Dinner time. Yes, please. Okay. Bye. See ya. Bye. Oh!

Show notes

We saw the colourful, angry, and deeply funny survey of Gordon’s work at UNSW Galleries (on until 2nd of October). We chat the violent power of language, Hookey’s sense of humour, linguistic rupture, re-imagined histories, the nature of truthyness, and have a poke at mainstream art media for being too shy to name the fun parts of this show.