5.6 The Kalanjay Dhir Interview

Transcript

Fine. I just mean out West. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Damn that’s loud. But yeah, loud. How’s the settings? It’s just my monitors loud, that’s all. Yeah. All right, let’s do this. No do. It hung up season five. Don’t know what episode it is. I’m going to stop. I got it. It’s 5.5. 5.5 that’s. Good this.

Morning today. We’ve got Cal in the studio. Uncle Cal Cielo. How you going? How you going? Thanks for having. Me here dude. Yeah. Nice to finally have you here, Carl. Yeah, thanks for your patience with me of. Course, of course. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, it’s just it, it all timed out well, ‘cause we took a massive holiday and, and, and we’re back on the, the like, we’re turning this thing into like a real like Joe

Rogan experience, like production, like before it was like, do you want to do a podcast this week? Like, yeah, OK. And now we’re like, we’ve got Cal and we’ve got someone else at like 11:30 at like. Levels it’s good to see it’s. Good to see. It’s fun when it’s fun. Yeah. Keenest truest podcast heads will recognize Cal, one of the

founding homies from Pari. Yes, one of the very first episodes we did was there. That’s your remember from. I remember your recording there with the zoom, yeah. Original format we’d like go to the gallery with the zoom. Yes, I remember very well. Look at this. Painting. Yeah, it was pretty wacky, but yeah. That’s why I was always drawn to you guys, ‘cause I always love people who rock up to gigs or

exhibitions or the Zoom recorder. Yeah, I feel like that’s always a sign of the head, you know what I mean? Like all my friends who are like mad nerds, mad heads like, yeah, always support the scene. They rock up to a set with a Zoom. And that’s like I, I love people rock up with Zoom, Yeah. I was actually, I was thinking about that Zoom recorder the other night falling asleep because I was like, what happened to that? And then I remember we were like

recording a video clip for someone like a live thing at like a gig. This was for Glenn. We were like packing up afterwards. And I was like, here, just hold this for a SEC ‘cause I had to like pack down the camera and he like turned around and put it on the bonnet on the roof of his car and then did the thing where you, like, you like forget about it, slam the doors closed and

like drive off. And then it just, it’s gone, you know, like it just got left on the side of King Street somewhere. So yeah, that’s the fate of that super recorder. Super recorder. But yeah, do you want to like introduce yourself a little bit for the like 2 listeners in Canada who don’t know who you are and just like maybe go over like, you know, your work with

Pari or like just just briefly? Yeah, so my name is Carl, My full name is Carl and Jadir. I grew up in Parramatta on Dark Country. What do I do? I Yeah, I helped set up PARI which is an artist run initiative in Parramatta, one of the few in Western Sydney.

There have been some before us and there are some other ones now, but in different formations where really PARI is really focused on supporting emerging artists and definitely supporting Western Sydney artists as well as connecting Western Sydney artists with like the rest of Sydney and all of Australia and even international artists too. Definitely focused on being an exhibition platform as well as

now like a DIY live music venue to allegedly.

And I also have my own art practice and I make sculpture and video. I’ve been working since I graduated art school in like 2016. I make a lot of stuff that kind of draws on pop culture, sci-fi, history, a really references a lot of spirituality. And I make music as well. Yeah.

And I have a few different projects, some of which would have been on different hiatuses and stuff. But I’ve been working on a lot of music this year, which has been really fun. Yeah. Cool yeah, we both loved the Guild record. Like these players would like to get earlier on and yeah, like cool, I actually wanted to talk about that. Like the you know, the the that the sound of that record.

And like I feel like, yeah, it’s sort of like a lot of it comes from like Harry’s stuff with like just possessed, but like that’s that seems like such a Sydney sound like listening to Guild and then comparing it to like lowlife, you know, like do you do you think there’s something going on there? Like, yeah, interesting with like the tone. It’s like like I would say like like it’s devastating.

Like, you know, in one way it’s Devo. Like do you agree? Like, do you think there’s something going on there or is that a coincidence? No, definitely. I feel like, yeah, it’s interesting. I feel like there’s different parts of Sydney sound that’s emerging. I mean, there’s many different kinds of Sydney sounds. But yeah, I think that’s a good, that’s a good take. I think Harry in particular is an interesting one. Or by Young because he really draws lines between the kind of

like heavy music scenes and and and rap and then also like hardcore and gather. Which like I think if I can just jump in like a a really tough like stylistic thing to do because like if we remember like 90s and early 2000s like new metal and like rap metal stuff like just kind of stinks like no one, no one listens to it really anymore and like.

It’s kind of having a moment now again, you metal, but yeah, no. Yeah, it is. But it’s like we’ve found the bits about it that we lie. Like, I think I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s interesting, like stylistically see what’s going on right now. Sorry to interrupt Go. On no, no, no, I think I think there is yeah, a different take to it. I feel like maybe new medal was

rock approaching rap whereas now it’s like both are approaching meeting in the middle as the best. You know, it’s like Harry’s track Dexamphetamine or our track. Yeah, Nah, yeah. It’s like I have rap background. Harry has a metal background. Yeah, cool. But Dexamphetamine, Harry’s track produced My Nerdy of 1300, which is AK Rap Group in Sydney.

But actually, if you know Angus Nerdy, he’s he’s, he’s a rock. Head like he he just lovely dude yeah loves his guitars that’s just an amazing musician and yeah yeah really lovely dude yeah we we reached out to him recently come on Angus hop on the pod I. Want to talk? I’ll tell him, I’ll tell him. I’ll tell him, yeah. That’s funny. Yeah, the I remember like I’ve

gone through like these pretty like crazy, like when I was young and getting into music, like these sort of polls between like I’m really listening to and like, I mean, you don’t know me, Cal, but I can be a pretty extreme person. I’m like now I only listen to this genre and now it’s just this and everything else. I was like just listening to like guitar music, air quotes. And I remember like finding hip

hop like pretty late and telling like my homie, like I don’t listen to guitar music at all. Like guitar music, whatever the fuck that is. Yeah, I definitely was the same, went through the same phase. Yeah, it. Was funny. I was thinking about my first gig this morning and like Australian hip hop and I was like 16. It was in Brisbane. It was Hilltop Hoods. Yeah, it was.

And my like. Shadow Hilltop Woods. Yeah, my, my neighbor came with me and like, passed out, like we smoked too much weed and he like, fainted like Brisbane Riverside. Quintessential Aussie of experience. Really. Yeah. And then like, I kind of ran into this thing where, like, you know, I was starting to hang around with like, more like indie kids and there was a lot of like American Music. And it was like, you should know

about like David Byrne and you should know like this shit and you should fucking. And they were like, really, it was like, you’re like, it was like a pretty bad quote, UN quote bad thing to like listen to Aussie hip hop. Like in my circle. It was like, no, definitely. It was like shameful and like bogan and like, not the right type of cool. Like it wasn’t like, definitely.

And so it was like it was funny to come. That was sort of that stuck with me for a while. And then it was, yeah, I think I’ve told the story on the pod. But yeah, I went away to like the UK for a couple of years. I came back, Matt picked me up from the airport and he was like rocking a slim set. That’s right. Oh really? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. And I was like, what’s that show?

Yeah, listen to this. I mean, I was like, that’s right, Yeah, what the fuck? Is this that’s mad? This is. Aussie hip hop now like. Right. Oh yeah, it had. Changed so much it had. Changed so much you left. And then you came back and a lot of and. I’m sure there was heaps going on that I just didn’t know about. No, it’s in between. But yeah, yeah, I. Mean it’s interesting you kind of bring that up like that kind of the the the cultural cringe,

if you like that existed for Aussie hip hop. I kind of for me, there’s markers like some setters, Mark. Obviously I’m biased, but actually 1/4 is the marker of the shift like that. That’s when the shift really happens. I feel like we were just before 1/4 where it’s like we were talking, we we were making Aussie hip hop in an environment where everyone hated Aussie hip

hop. As in when I say everyone, everyone who wasn’t into you know, yeah, yeah. And when I say Aussie hip hop, there’s also there was also two sides of Aussie hip hop. You know, there was like gutter rap and like western Sydney rap or a lot of inner city rap as well, like Schemer, sky high, even enter like these. These are also part of gutter rap that is a part of the

Western Sydney identity, but actually a very inner city identity, almost a part of school that Spaniards apart from. Yeah. But then there’s also like what people call skip hop, a BBQ rap, Aussie hip hop, which is, you know, what I grew up on and I actually listened to, I listened to Horror Show, Spit Syndicate, like Bliss and Esso. I listen to those bands before I listen to American rap. Yeah.

I didn’t. I’ve never heard Skip hop. Yeah. I think people call it that, yeah. That’s cool. Yeah. I get what you mean though. I like just the the the name of the genre is very fitting. I like that. Yeah. And I think a lot of people there is that cringe around. A particular indie was bigger and dance music was starting. There was no crossover between like dance music and that kind of like Aussie, Aussie hip hop. So true. So true. Yeah, scenes.

Like this completely different thing. And like the scenes probably socially were just, yeah, completely different. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s the environment that me and Atro started to Slim set in, where it was like, we love dance music, we love rap, I love hanging out with heavy music people. Yeah. And then it’s like, yeah, yeah. So. What did that look like like the the the early days of slim set? Like what were you guys?

What were you guys doing? Like you know, I’ve done a lot of bedroom like. Rehearsals and shit like. That was it. Like that? Kind of, yeah. I mean, the early days is like when when Zach Atro lived in Auburn and we were just like, I think like many people starting to many Australians trying to make rap or hip hop for the first time. We made like boom bap stuff, you know what I mean? But then it was about the time where it was just before Skepta

had dropped. That’s not me. So we were already kind of listening to Grime, like I was going back and listening to Wiley. And I kind of like, as a younger, you know, we all knew Dizzy. Rascal and stuff like that. Love Dizzy Rascal. Yeah. Yeah, so we were going back and it was also at the time of the UK label Night Slugs and a lot of other UK music at the time. And that’s kind of what got us listening to a lot of like UK

bass and grime in particular. And that’s when it started to steer the direction of some set a lot more. Yeah. Because then we saw a link where like, OK, this is a way Aussie accent can be used in a way that isn’t just like, you know. Yeah, yeah. Lyrical miracle Fictional. Yeah, really interesting about the accent. Yeah, yeah, the. Accent and just I guess yeah, that the grime I, I forgot I’d

kind of like found grime over there in a way, like in London, like I was born there and like to go back there and that was pretty interesting because there was another entry point. And I feel like a lot of Australians do have this affinity with the UK as like, you know, like you’ll you’ll know people from there you’ve been there. Maybe you have a family connection. And it’s a way of like, you know, that’s like a step between

the US, you know, and you don’t have to feel like I’m kind of fucking sick of consuming US content. Yeah, yeah, give me a fucking European show or like European brand, but yeah, that’s really interesting. Yeah. And I think like the style of language is similar to the humor is different, but similar as well. There’s a cheek, there’s a nursery rhyme nest to the kind of language. Yeah. So were you, had you already

been to SCA by that time or? So yes, I was at SCA when we started Slimset. Yeah, I was probably in second or third year. We went by a different name then Spidey and Devs. Some people know that name. Yeah, yeah. That’s a cool and then probably around. We actually released one or two EPS before the feed one, but I think they’ve been taken

offline. So Slimset properly started probably in like I can’t remember, I was like 1920. Yeah, cool. Yeah, that’s cool. Yeah, 20. 15/20/15 Yeah. It was like, it was like produced like bedroom produced, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Very cool and like how did you 2

meet? So we went to high school together actually in Petersham, not far from here. No shit. Which is also why, I mean, Atra was a lot not into Aussie hip hop at all like he was, he was completely an indicator actually a classical kid as well. So he’s very, and also his dad is, I mean, I can talk about Atra for ages. His dad’s goes under the name Pymin and he was one of The Pioneers of what they called

laptop music back in the day. You’re. Kidding. Yeah. So yeah, Zach was always into more experimental stuff, classical, indie, electronic. And then, you know, once you get to clubbing age, you start to get into dance music. Yeah, for sure. But I was always into, I liked indie stuff too. But I also liked a lot of emo. I liked a lot of heavy, and I loved Aussie hip hop. And then we kind of got into R&B and American rap at the same

time, which was around 1718, yeah. So yeah, we went to school around here. And then, yeah, when we were about 19, we started making music. Yeah, yeah. Cool, I wanted to ask you about like how like do you like how do you think about music and like sounds in in your works, like in your, your art practice, You know, I know you do like you do

a lot of like like mixed media stuff and like, you know, does it like there are very different worlds, right? They’re like the world of like what you could think of as like commercial music or pop music and then like, you know, using sounds in a gallery at all. You know, it’s just it’s and it’s like it can be, you know, people can feel like a whole lot

of different stuff, you know, in, in all those two different words, like do you do you think of them as separate things or like. Yeah. It’s interesting this has come up for me, I guess over the years and I guess actually in the kind of peak slim set, if you like. Hopefully it’s not peak slim set, hopefully peak slim set. It’s still not.

Yeah. When we’re gigging a lot, I kept them very separate. And a lot of, and I intentionally kept them very separate. Yeah. Even though Zach Atra would score a lot of my artworks and stuff like that, I kept them separate. Like, if you knew me, you knew that I was doing both. But a lot of people in the arts didn’t know I made music. A lot of curators didn’t know I made music. And a lot of people in music,

more so on music, had no idea made art. Yeah. And so sometimes they’d see me post stuff and be like, what the fuck is that like? Yeah, I know what you mean. It’s like I work in photography and I’m like scared to drop my next record. And I’m like, I’m like, I’m gonna have all these people being like, what the fuck? Like, yeah, like, because I, I’ve been doing it for a couple of years now and I put a video of me, like, playing piano one night and like, like people were

like, dude, like I thought you said you were a drama. Like, what the fuck’s going on? Like, I’m not trying to pick up myself, but it’s just like this compartmentalization thing is like, yeah, I get what you mean by that. It’s. Interesting, because I think being online to it really means you have to like put yourself forward in like a consumable way or like, you know, you have to

make yourself understandable or marketable if you like consistent, consistent. And I think, I don’t know if it was necessary that I was wary of that, but I think I was just like, like this music is for me and my friends and like this art stuff is for like the the institution or whatever. Yeah. But now I’ve kind of, you know, grown up a bit. Now I’m closer to 30 and I’m like, I’m starting to fuse it a lot more, particularly with my

recent works. And yeah, I mean, of course they feed into each other, you know, and I think nowadays when I’m making video works, I’ve definitely been a lot more. I realize like I can only add it to music, you know, I’m not a filmmaker. Like, I’m not a I’m not, you know, I’ve been two of my partners. My partners are film makers and I’m watching them make films.

I’m like, I’m not a filmmaker. Cool. That’s cool, yeah. Which is a really nice moment, especially when you’re a video artist, when you feel like I have to be write scripts, I have to story. Yeah, yeah. That’s interesting. But actually, I’m not making music videos either, you know? I’m making video art. And yeah, that’s been a nice part of the process of being like, oh, a lot of the way I think is around music, yeah. Yeah. And although you did make some music videos for the swimsuit

stuff, which was super fun, I guess there’s something when I listened to that music for the first, I was like, damn, this is so there’s like a lot of fun. And this is like giving me grime and this is giving me like the fucking Sydney accent. And this is giving me the local references, which I didn’t know how badly I needed that. Yeah. A lot of people say. Ashfield in the apartment and they’re fucking. Put the track on and you’d be

like fucking in Ashfield and we’d all look around and just that was so yeah, intrinsicating to come back and have that coming from such a like we fucking hate Sydney when I was, you know, at one point. It was a bit of a fuck Sydney attitude, yeah. You’re right. That’s right. Especially like. In the inner W anyway. Like, it’s not New York Like, yeah. It’s not London and that’s been

happening in Australia since I’ve always have this little quote. It’s some 19th century poet. He’s like trying to release his poems, some Aussie dude, and they’re like, you need to go to London to have your London hearing. Like you need to be legitimized by a bigger cultural scene before you. And I’m sure that still exists, but it just seems like it’s such

a better place to be able to like, just fucking enjoy where you are then. Definitely. Yeah. Especially because I moved here like being like, I don’t like the Gold Coast, like I want to move to Sydney like, and I didn’t want to also be like, now I don’t like it here either, like. You know what I mean? Yes, Yeah, it feels. Like so much. And maybe it’s just, maybe it’s just getting older or growing up or like personal stuff, but I

definitely think it’s a cultural, I think. It’s a shift. Yeah. I think it’s a shift. I feel like it’s hard to say. Like Aussie hip hop does talk about the city, like if I think about skip hop kind of vibes and they do like horror show songs do reference the, you know, the buses in the inner W the train, the bus numbers and like kind of like gravy baby and like enter

like they’re talking about yellow line or Liverpool. Yeah. So yeah, I guess if you were listening to that kind of Aussie pop, like there was always pride in there. But I do know what you mean and I appreciate that. You’re right. Like, and I think I take it for granted how much people appreciated that in slim set. I’m like, yeah, it is interesting like we do, you know, there’s there is a love hate relationship with the city, but it does start with love, you

know for sure. I think like in hip hop, like all around the world, like it’s it like gave artists a way to talk about like where they live, you know, like where you know, it would be. It’s more of a country music thing in the past. And like, you know, just rock music doesn’t want to talk about specific things like places, you

know, unless it’s like, you know, in a bit of an abstract way, like Philadelphia or something. I don’t know. Yeah, yeah, it’s. Like it’s definitely like a significant part of the genre, yes. And yeah, not to say that like enter and stuff weren’t doing it like, but, but they weren’t me. They. Were a particular audience as well they weren’t I. Wasn’t listening. Yeah, like, like. Article Kids weren’t listening

to Enter. I wasn’t listening. To enter my friend like showed me, you know, my friend from Penn is like this is what we were listening to, but I I had no idea that existed, you know, yeah, I guess yeah. I was also thinking about like, it’s interesting being because yeah, I didn’t know you like were a a visual artist. And then I saw like, you know, I was, I was looking up. I was like, oh, you went to SCA and I was like, it made a lot of

sense to me. Like all of a sudden, like Slim said, like it made a lot of sense. That you were, you know. Having like a sort of, you know, art school influence as well. But yeah, one thing that we always kind of get stuck on here is just like fun and contemporary art because like I can imagine a I’ve never seen

like a slim set joke, but I fucking know it would be a lot of fun. And to me that record is a lot of fun and that music. But like if you had like, you know, on one side of the screen, like the this is a slim set gig. And then the other side you have like, this is people at an exhibition. Like you like these people having fun. And these people are, I don’t

know if they’re having fun, Like, do you know what I mean, Like. Like just don’t think difficult they’re. Doing something. They’re doing quite contemplation. So yeah, I just, I wonder, like, I don’t know, I’ve seen your, I can’t remember what bits. The work. It’s like the video game installation with like the Mountain Dew stuff. But you know, even then, like, it’s still a very, very different mode of viewing.

It’s still a pretty quiet one. Like, you know, I think when we came to party with the recorder, we’re probably like one of the louder visitors maybe, you know, and, you know, not to say about openings, but yeah, I guess I just wonder, like, how you think of like, people seeing, like, coming to galleries and whether or not you still think there’s a little bit of a problem with,

you know, whether they can be still too quiet or, you know, there’s this reverence where, you know. Yeah, it’s interesting. I feel like, I mean, there’s a couple of things there. I feel like galleries are a tricky spot and I think you get used to it as an artist. But actually when you’re like part of the public, not that there’s a separation, but when you’re, you know, you’re public attending a gallery, it’s like there is a nervousness, you

know, people don’t come into part. They feel intimidated. They feel like they aren’t welcome or yeah, it’s not for them. And it’s. It’s a tricky thing that I think galleries all over the world have to grapple with and haven’t for sure. Yeah. And yeah, I don’t know. I could probably go on about why or. What? Yeah, I mean, go off. Yeah, totally.

It’s hard, I guess. You know, art is for the elite, you know, it’s like, especially if you think about a commercial gallery, like who’s buying stuff, you know? But then if you think about public art spaces like Ari’s, like. It’s tricky. Who are they for? You know, Pari, we say it’s for the community, and we’ve definitely built a community there. But in terms of the general public who come in, like the average person who comes in, they’ll like, do you have a toilet? You know what? I mean, for sure it’s.

A tricky thing, I feel like with my I’ve didn’t realize how kind of playful I was with it until someone pointed it out to me, which is like the river work immersion or like the puppet stuff and actually like watching it in galleries. And something that really beautiful that I didn’t contend was quite a strange effect of making art in the way I do.

It’s like when I’m in a group exhibition, like and there’s an opening night, all the kids just sit in front of my work ‘cause it looks like a game. There’s puppets, there’s pings and stuff. Yeah, that’s awesome. And they just did that and they’re like, this is my spot, you know? That’s huge. Yeah. And that’s, that’s so cool. That was a big moment for me where I was like, oh, like, yes.

It has the appearance of children’s media and it like, maybe not even intentionally, like now with the pop stuff, I guess, Yes. But there’s something very interesting there and like how children’s media is kind of developed and designed, but then can also operate in different modes. You know, it’s like a any, the classic, totally good kids animation film works for both the adults and the kids and teaches them both.

Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s also just an issue in general with galleries. I mean something that I’ve in the back of my mind always trying to like, figure out is like, what’s the best way to view video in a gallery? Huge. It’s a huge issue we’re. Talking about us a lot right now, yeah. We saw it. Do you know Jake Stars? Oh yeah, yeah, that looks great actually. Where is that? I should see that it’s. Mackville, OK, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I think. It’s on for another week. OK, I should. I should go have a look because that work looks great. I like his work. They work. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that was like we just, yeah, we just spoke to Jack last night. Yeah, that. Was like. I was like, let’s talk about video work, yeah? In a big way. So yeah, I’d love to hear your thoughts and. Because like, you know what, what, like just just to catch you up to because like we’ve been having this conversation

for like a few years on the pod. And like the main things that we notice are that like, you know, in some cases that the work is like it’s sort of intimidating for. Yeah, like the public and even artists to the point where like you don’t even want to use the chair that the like gallery or. The artist has like you’re. Like, fuck, I’m probably just going to stand and watch this one, hey.

And like, you know, there’s that and then there’s this funny thing where it’s like, you know, some of them go for four hours and some of them go for 12 minutes. And you’re like, am I going to, like, try and get a a viewing time or like, is there a button where you just hit start? This is my thing. Yeah. I’ve thought about that a lot of, you know. Yeah, yeah. When when I saw that, I knew

Teresa well, I knew I was going to go in and be like, whoever’s there. I’m like, can you please, like, start this again? Because I know it has a start and an end. Yeah. And like, we’re not walking into the movie halfway through and it’s already so hard. Yeah, sorry, guys. We’re like, it’s hard video. It’s really hard. Yes, in my opinion. Yeah, and everything’s video now. That’s what we’re seeing at RA too, like, and just cause look at our life, like our life is

video now, you know, like everything we consume is video content. So it’s like, of course art’s gonna reflect that. And the ways that we show that art hasn’t been updated and is kind of at a weird position where it’s like, yeah, we just put it on TV on loop. He’s like, OK, then an artist either designs that with the video work with that in mind, which I try and do. And I do have short form content.

Like I don’t do epic things, but there are works where I do. They are start to finish. They’re linear narratives, and it’s like, what do I do in a gallery then? Do I give the remote to the audience? Yeah. It’s a tricky thing, yeah. It just seems like there’s very naturally so much friction between the space and the medium. We have a really good, we actually have heaps of really

good video viewing platforms. We have cinemas which everyone loves and they’re great. You’ve got a comfy seat, you’ve got a glass of wine, you’ve got popcorn. Yeah. And. Like, you’re gonna watch, even when you go watch, like, a serious movie, you still get popcorn, right? Yeah. But like, that would be, like, outrageous in the gallery. Yeah. And you’ve got, like, true, it shouldn’t be.

But like, you’ve got, like, fucking laying in your bed on your phone. Yeah, That’s super comfy. Yeah. Laptop on the chest like we’ve got to do. It yeah, heaps of. Good ways to consume video. On the train on the way to work on the. And that’s kind. Of the gallery’s like fuck you like stand here like and feel uncomfortable in the middle of this.

Room or. Even I just want to say like Jake gave us a little Screener, so we like watched it in the gallery context and it’s an installation. So we got to see that and then we got to sit right here and rewatch it there. And that was so fucking like it was so comfy, you know what I mean? Like I was like, I wish video art, but then we obviously have like economic stuff. And I I would like, I’m sure I

would love to have like, you know, the digital file of your videos and I can just watch them like in bed. Like that would be sick, Yeah. Full as well. Yeah. I mean, I think that’s is also like I have a consistent argument with my friend to kill about what’s the best video platform for art, and they’re always like, yeah, Vimeo. I’m like, fuck Vimeo. Yeah, why no comment section? I’ve never even heard the

comment section. No comment section. I love the comment comment. Comments. No comments. Yes, and the other thing had. Comments but they Vimeo. Does, but it’s not the same culture as YouTube. The comment section is yeah. And I think that’s also something that I’m thinking of. It’s like, yes, there’s art in the SO. You saying you’re saying YouTube? I’m. YouTube, I’m pro YouTube, yeah.

And I also, I mean, this is also a larger conversation about quality versus speed and stuff like that. And like Vimeo is better quality. Supposedly it is, but I don’t like the buffer time. Like I prefer the compression on YouTube and I don’t I think that it doesn’t affect the viewing experience having slight less quality for better speed. But my friend is up and like no

quality area. That’s an interesting one, but I feel the tricky one. Recently I’ve been yeah, my past couple of video works with the puppets are all shot in portrait and I am actually signed to design them completely for social media. Cool and a. Great way to disseminate, yeah, to distribute this stuff I love.

It and it’s it’s funny. Because they had a lot of artists and curators are like surprised and they’re like, it’s funny that an artist would go full steam ahead into like short form video content. Like, you know, content has become almost a dirty word in the arts. Whereas for the rest of the world, content is like the courageous. It’s like we need content from you. That’s a good point.

But I think, you know, as an artist, it’s like you make art and you don’t make art in a vacuum. You know, like for me, I’ve always responded to the world and the world is short form video content. I have a horrific scrolling addiction. You know I do scroll every day like. I’m struggling, yeah. Yeah, we’re all struggling. He’s like, he’s he’s free. Yeah, yeah, it’s my screen time.

He’s pretty good. I. Don’t know but I have a dumb phone. Yeah. Oh, you got a dumb phone. I have a dumb. Phone and an iPhone and like yeah anyway I. Tried that. I tried all of that. I’m. OK. But yeah, I really love that. And I love it’s the thing that I was thinking when you were saying that is we could have this perfect video and we could have it in a gallery and it might look really great like on

Instagram, like the, the install shirt might look so sexy and so sellable and like, you know, it was really fun. Like the opening was really fun. But like very few people, if any ever engaged with that work in in any meaningful way. And like, I feel like that’s pretty hard to live with as an artist versus like, oh, like it, it looks whatever.

I got to deal with the Flack of of making it for an iPhone, but 100 or 1000 people actually. Connect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And at the end of the. Day. That’s what you’re going for, right? Yeah, I think. That’s what I’m just. Releasing yeah, if it’s just purely for you totally and you don’t need anyone to connect with it yeah that’s cool, but why even it’s it’s. Funny how if you’re gonna make one of a very traditional video

art work, how specific the order of events need to be for someone to connect with it. Yeah. In that way, like not to knock it, because for anyone that’s that into it, like you and I are Aiden, we know if it’s like, you know, in a gallery and the seats uncomfortable, we know like and

we’re not scared by that anymore because we’ve like done the sort of practice of like going to galleries for fucking. And we can see part of that stuff, yeah. Yes, it’s a good point that like, you know, like a lot needs to go right in that in that case for someone who’s like maybe on the fence about conceptual art in general, you know, to like for to really land with them. But yeah, just slipping it into

the feed like yeah. Yeah, yeah. In your face right away. I really like that idea I. Haven’t I’ve been doing BTS videos of my puppet stuff, but I’ve actually been designing and writing the videos for TikTok. I just haven’t yet finished them in a way where I’ve posted them. Yeah, but I’m really curious to see how they go. Like they’ll probably flop, but it’s that’s been the nice

challenging for me ‘cause it’s like, as I said, I’m not a film maker like past couple years as being me being like, what does it mean to make video art, especially what does it mean to make video art today? So this is where I’m at now. It’s like I’m designing these videos for a short form of video content to try and get an idea across to a really mass audience that isn’t an art audience. And that’s a really fun

challenge for me. Yeah, that’s a hectic. Challenge that’s like as big as it like that was kind of that’s I think a lot of people go there and then they try and they’re like fuck, this is so hard. Let’s just go back to the art audience. You know what I like we did that when we first started this podcast, we’re like, you know, we had this ambition of like, you know, and we tried and we tried gallery, but now we’re just like, can we just talk to

artists with like art language, like a a chill tone down version, like a version that we think represents our beliefs, But like, you know, and. I think the way I’ve kind of rationalized it is I see it almost like, you know, in fashion of diffusion lines like I have for the gallery. I’m doing a kind of more formal edit if you like, or it’s like it’s a full, for example, I have the work A Perfect Storm.

It’s not finished, but it’s the first puppet I made. It’s a 30 minute video work. It’s like full episodic Slack, but yeah, vertical videos of this alien coming and then meeting humans and then kind of talking with all the different humans. Cool. But then the idea is each of those videos, each of those episodes become individual TikTok posts. And so there’s the actual, the more formal full narrative in

the gallery, whatever, online on like YouTube. But then they’re like on TikTok. I have. It’s actually in different kind of series, Yeah. You mean by diffusion lines where it’s like there might be like a couture like runway thing? And then you have the sports label or the like, you know, Mumware. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like that. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah, It’s, it’s, it’s cool. I’ve been working like in fashion photography for the last little while. And like, so cool to see like the like a bit of the behind the scenes stuff. Like we like, I assist a photographer, a couple of photographers and like, sometimes we get to shoot like the runway, you know, which sometimes doesn’t even get an

actual show. But it’s like, amazing to see like how like finished or unfinished the clothes might be for a particular show. And like, yeah, it’s really fascinating. I’ll do a little like report on it one day when we’ve got a yeah, we’ve just got a You and Me episode. Yeah. Fascinating. I love that idea of like you’re kind of like it’s like what you were saying about like a good

kids animated movie, like you’re sort of being you’re able to like speak on a multiple different levels at once. Like yeah, really interesting way of like communication in in pretty much in any medium, like yeah, yeah. And. I’m not saying, like, again, make clear I don’t think all artists should do this. Is like, you know how I’m thinking through my work and

what I want to do, Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So do you have a like rough like date for this to be shown? Like your puppet work is like it says on your website. I think you’re like, I’m working on a puppet work but there’s no like. Classic. Yeah. Haven’t been able to finish any work in like 2 years. It’s so cooked.

Not you. That’s the real. That’s the real Sydney culture, right? I know, I know. Yeah, so can we, can we get a fucking day or what do you mean? I don’t like a first draft, and I showed in the gallery, but there was just a lot more. Yeah. I mean, I’m at a funny point in my practice where I’ve kind of been very fortunate to, like, have, you know, studios after art school and go to, like, do

shows and stuff to get commissions. Yeah. Yeah. But I’m at a point now where it’s like I’ve picked this medium of puppetry to focus on. Cool. That’s a very hard medium. I didn’t make it easy. Yeah. So really hard. Yeah. I’ve got two drafts of, like, two separate video works, two separate puppets. The puppets are done. Yeah. Which were big processes in and of themselves.

You know, of course, the art of puppet making is something that I’m really falling in love with. Yeah. Cool. Particularly someone who studied sculpture. Yeah. Yeah. And. Like, do you, don’t you think it kind of fits like conceptually with like video game design as well? Absolutely. Yeah, like I spend like the longest part of puppet making actually is not the making the character design cool. Like I’m actually drawing

references. Like it’s really nice to go back to actual like game art style stuff where it’s like you are drawing characters again and again again and iterating and actually what they do in manga as well, which is another big reference for me. Uh huh. Cool, cool. Yeah. But yeah, so the puppet making is something that I’m like learning, but then the whole other side of puppetry, of course is performance and voice. And I can video edit, I can

shoot totally. But the performance and the voice is something that I’m still yet to crack. Yeah, OK, yeah. And so there’s no date currently, even though I have two video drafts that are online because I’m still working out the voice of the puppets. Cool. Yeah, cool. And some of it is shot in camera and recorded on set, but most of

it will be dubbed cool. Which is how they do a lot of kind of costing me stuff in movies. So that’s why I’m still working out. Cool that’s awesome I love the idea yeah I love the idea of this whole new thing for you really and just taking the time to develop it yeah to a level that satisfies you super exciting when artists decide to do that yeah okay, I’m now a

sculptor, photographer for my whole. Life love that and I heard I wouldn’t mind if you feel like talking about it a little bit of your SCA experience. I guess you’re at like the good old days. Yes, the very good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe. Did you guys? Go CA No. We went to Sydney Uni. Yeah, we were just like, like a. Humanity English BA Yeah, I

tried to do art history, actually. I I like, I never really knew about art, but I was studying English and then I was like, dude, what the fuck is art? Like this is so cool. Can I study it? But they like, wouldn’t let me. Basically. They’re like, you have to like, oh, I thought. You had to. You could. Sorry. Yeah. Like, but I’d already started my degree and I was about to go do art history, but they’re like, you have to like, wait a year. And I was like, OK, fuck you. Like, on my own like.

And like the art history department wasn’t that. Yeah, but yeah. Now I can ramble about SCA like a. Yeah, make our poor current students feel jealous, even though I think that they’re doing a good job. Like we really have the graduate this year. I. Think the the the real magic of the old SCA was the space like we, you know, Callen Park is beautiful, beautiful part of

Sydney with a very cooked history. So for those who don’t know, as an old, I don’t know what the time is, Asylum essentially, you know, so those it was a yeah. It’s a huge, beautiful park in the middle of Lilyfield, next to Balmain on the water. Yeah. There’s Jacaranda trees, there’s old convict stone buildings, there’s dungeons. You know, it’s like got.

Oval down the road, yeah. There’s an Oval down the road. It’s where they used to do Laneway Festival, yes. I’ve been there once. I took acid with my friend. And. Someone great. Place, Yeah. And. Someone from work like, like caught me out doing acid because like we got free tickets through and they caught us doing acid

and then the next day they were like like this also just by the way, completely wet over my head. They were like, Matt, Can you believe someone went? Can you believe someone was doing like people were doing drugs yesterday? Like and I was like, no way, that’s terrible. Like how could you anyway?

But yeah, I see. It was beautiful. There’s just huge grounds and I whenever I describe it, it always feels like it wasn’t. It was in Sydney, but it wasn’t in Sydney, you know what I mean? Like it was like, yeah, he walked in the doors and just transported. Yeah, the actual lessons themselves and the teachers, I mean, I love them all. But yeah, it was interesting the

way I describe it compared to the other art schools where NASA’s formal, if you like, where it’s like they teach you the base skills and stuff. Especially drawing this emphasis on tradition coefficient is a lot more, I would say, academically rigorous. SCA is like single swim. It’s like back then at least I feel like I felt like I was a burden nest and they push you out. Wow. And it’s.

Like if and when I say that, I mean there was like very hands off teaching. Yeah. Interesting. So. And the teachers are all, like, practicing artists, yeah. They’re practicing and also cookers, bro. Yeah, shout out all my SCA teachers. But they’re cookers. That’s awesome. Speaking of acid drip, like I probably shouldn’t say the name but one of my teachers of like experimental writing just spent

like 3 lessons talking about his acid trips and I’m like amazing. That sounds great but I’m also like like 100. And 50 bucks for this lecture lecture quote UN quote you know but. It was very much like how much you put in is what you get out. Yeah. And I feel like. Can be even. From the beginning, even from like first year. Even from first year I. Do struggle with that.

Like I really like, I think a lot and I care a lot about like teaching practices and like education and like pedagogy, if you will. No, no, absolutely. Like I think like that’s cool and all, but it’s, it’s kind of shit actually. Yeah, sorry, first year they do give you a good sample. They do, you do. There is. And I would say where it kind of

slips is the discipline thing, which is a bigger conversation for articles to have. You know, it’s like I benefited because I was in sculpture. So when you’re in sculpture, you have to learn the basics of a lot of different materials, whereas in painting you just learn a bit of wood. Yeah. And then you’re learning painting stuff, you know? Yeah, but you like? Were you in like when you finished high school?

You’re like, I want to go do like, like study like fine and like. Now that I want to do sculpture. Yeah. Yeah. Do you? Have like a family thinking about. That like in high school, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It’s so funny, isn’t it? Did you? Have like like family or anyone or anyone around you who was or you just had this. It came from inside. I just always wanted.

I was drawn to art. It’s, I mean, like, I’m Asian, like my dad’s Indian, My mom is Indonesian. Like my mom was a bit more like, yeah, you know, she was kind of like her family’s is creative in a sense. And she was in fashion circles when she was younger. Interesting. Yeah. But my dad’s a software engineer. Yeah, he’s like I don’t. Get it bro?

Yeah. And they were just like, do you have? To go any. Convincing or yeah, they were just like what? They were like, what are you doing? Like and they were convinced that I would get a really shit mark. And they were like, oh, he wants to do it because I’m gonna get a shit mark. But then I got a decent mark and they were like like, why the fuck are you doing this? Interesting. And I picked SCA. It’s so funny thing, like I was

18, like I’m so arrogant. I picked SCA because they didn’t have an ATAR cut off and I was like, how are you going to judge an art school on the HR? Yeah, it’s like. Yeah, it’s so. Funny to be at 17 thinking like that, yeah. Yeah, I like it. I like it. I like had to do the course that I did at Sydney Uni because I got such a shit mark. I was like, oh fuck, like I wanted.

I do want to go to like, you know, a cool uni. Like I like, I managed to like weasel my way in to Sydney Uni. That’s really funny. I was. Like pissed at Sydney Uni, but like it’s funny. Like I don’t I’m not going to let them take credit for like how I’ve ended up, but like, does it make sense? It kind of like sort of like what you’re saying, like you

have to drive it from yourself. Yes, but like, in some ways they’re like resist my resistance towards like you said, like, but I still care a lot about poetry 10 years later. Yeah. And I still read some of the books and poets that I was shown. Yeah, back then. For real. So even though I was like fuck you Sid and fuck this, like the

some of the teachers and the vibes and fuck the man, like it’s kind of been, you know, it did teach me a lot absolutely how to fucking be a human. Yeah, and I think that sink or swim thing is an interesting. I know what you mean, how it’s like shit in a way if you’re paying for it. But I think in the context of the arts, it really set me up because in 3rd year, here I am 20 years old calling up

suppliers like all over Sydney, you know what I mean? Because my teachers like, because I’m like, I want to build this. He’s like, cool, these are the pieces you need. And I’m like, what do I get them? He’s like, find them. And I’m literally calling up supplies in Penrith, in Silver Water, in Mascot. I’m driving around, you know, it’s like, and I’m learning how to talk to suppliers and like get my stuff fabricated or get the parts that I want and then

fabricate it myself. And I think that now defines me as an artist. Wow. Like, because in terms of like, actual making, in terms of concept and stuff, that’s your own juice, you know? I mean, like, yeah, I talked about with my teachers, but it’s your own source, you know? Yeah, for sure. But in terms of making and, like, feeling comfortable in my cities, that I can make. I know what I can make, what I can’t make. Yeah.

That I learned from SCA. Yeah. And it’s like like I now know like. I need to buy her sheet of brass. I know I’m gonna get some steel cut on something laser cut. Like I know where they go, you know? Yeah, does. That extend also to being like I wanna fucking start a gallery or I’ll have a show. Like in a way cuz we had Sam Hodge. Yeah, you’re right. I don’t know if you know Sam Hodge. Yes, I know. Sam Hodge, Yeah. And he was just saying, like,

you just have to start it. Like, just have a show. Like, it’s the hardest thing for kids is just to have a show. And like, we were talking about that. We were like in Asher, like having dumplings last night. And we’re like, looking at the paintings on the wall in like, Shanghai net, Like, but could we have a show in here? And I was like, can I have a show in my own in my old jujitsu gym upstairs? I was thinking as I was going to bed, but I was like, but I guess like having not been to art

school, like you take a bunch, like Matt is a visual artist takes has taken photos for a long time. I’m sort of getting into it, but there’s still like some permission. And I think a lot of people have, like some people, you have the confidence. Permission. The fan is a completely ghost. Yeah. I would love, like, I’ve spoken to a lot of people like young artists who have that more or

less like have those permission, yes. So yeah, I would love if you have any thoughts on like, yeah, early stuff and just like sort of yeah, being like, fuck it, I’m just gonna do it. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I always had the drive. I feel like it’s often a gendered thing as well. Not always, you know, like guys often more easy to play fucker. I’m gonna, I’m making stuff now, you know, Sure. But not always the case. Not always the case.

I would say now I’m in a position where I’ve just like pushed so many people to make work, you know, like borderline abused, you know what I mean? It’s like, like I’ll be calling up friends. Like people like, like I’d be like, you are so smart. You’re so creative. Like just make some stuff like apply for this, do this, like give me a script, you know, it’s like, and I think that phantom

permission is an interesting concept. It’s very true. Like people might have the ability and hunger or curiosity to do it, but there is that like, oh, but I’m not an artist or like it’s not for me. And it’s like, sometimes it’s actually you just pushing a friend along, you know, and you just, someone’s coming to you and be like, just crack it. Like what do you have to lose? You know, it’s like, and also like how much you have to gain,

you know, like, like how, how. And I think if you found a permission, I think is then like, how do I say like the feeling of satisfaction of completing a work that you’re happy with, then gives you a lot of permission, you know what I mean? Then you’re like. And I think I’ve seen that in a lot of, like a lot of friends, particularly partners, where I’ve.

I’ve pushed them a lot and I’ll be like, make this and then watching them finish it and then just being like, then be like, I made that. Yeah. And that’s like, that’s all the permission they needed and the satisfaction. That’s huge. Yeah. And then money comes involved and it gets hard, but. But but before that, it’s the satisfaction of like, whoa, I just told a story or like I just. Captured this I made a memorable

line yes you know that’s like. And it resonated with people, Yeah. And that’s the other like that feedback is very. Important get to the as quick as you can to the first to sort of like yes, quote UN quote like successful work that’s been really. Finished work, yeah. And I just publishing in a way, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. Doing a show, Yeah. Recording music, putting it out,

putting online, like publishing. Yeah. And in a broad sense, Bunny is did you? Have any Because then I guess like you know you you’re on FBI for ages and like obviously like Pari and it seems now part of your role as you’re sort of more like mid Korea.

True. If I mid. In the Zuma sense, bro. Yeah, true is to like like platform people and take that role really seriously, which I noticed about you. I was like, damn, this is fucking sick, man. Like you should be really proud of it and I’m sure you are, but you should also be recognized for doing that like that that extending because it was like

when you were doing the what was it like sunsets with two Ki would like listen to the like, sesh from the West and be like, damn, I was like getting like a lot of music from this that I never would have heard, like not being from here for sure. And like those kids are out like, like tea breezy, like, yeah. And he’s like, still around. He’s actually the best friend. In Australia to not recognize. Like a two or two like he’s. Playing at like Parramatta

Lanes, there’s going to be like 20 people and like a bunch of like, food stores. Like, I’m still going to go see him. Like he’s going to sing. So yeah, yeah. But yeah. Did you have anyone like that? Did you feel like you had some? Definitely, definitely. And that’s why I like Yeah. And thank you for saying that, you know, I think sometimes it’s something I take for granted, but it’s like actually what I put a lot of my energy to. Like I do really like I I talk

about a lot with my friend Neil from album Queen Neil, he produces under also the young God. And it’s like we, we describe it as fan energy and fan energy is sometimes used by artists in a way is like, how do I say like a dismissive or like, Oh, they’re a fan. But actually, we, we’ve been thinking about a lot. It’s actually the highest compliment to be a fan of someone is to like really value what they’re doing, to get

excited for what they’re doing to, to, to want to see what they do because it makes you think different. And I think like that energy, like I’ve received that energy or even just support from elder people, you know, you know, when I started making art and then I was a paramedic artist studios and they, there was a lot of like Shimanjani La, like Marquette, Santiago, car de Mali, Garik Trin, like that all

helped me so much, you know, and of course the, the, the studios themselves and they pushed me. But I think in the music sense or an arts sense that that fan energy. And that’s why when I seen you guys carrying the zoom, that’s why I’m like gassed on it because I’m like, that’s what we need. You know, we need people to be excited about what your friends are making, because that’s how culture builds. That’s how you know, and it’s

actually sometimes, you know, I have friends who, like, talk down on other people’s work, but it’s not that good. I could make better. It’s like, yeah. And I understand that critique is important, but fan energy is more important. Yeah. Because what happens then? Even if you make work that’s not. Even if my friend makes work that’s not great. Yeah. It’s not my favorite thing in the world.

Yeah. It doesn’t hold up to something in London. Yeah. It doesn’t matter because you need to think big picture. You know, I want Sydney to have a recognizable culture, you know? And that only happens when generations or, like, you know, like people have a full body of work or many people have full bodies of work. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Like it’s, it’s like if you take a bad photo and you show me,

like you showed me a photo yesterday and I was like joking, like making fun of you. Like, it’s not the end of the world. Like you didn’t violate me. Like you took a kind of bad photo. Like if I send you a bad poem. But yeah. And I think like, also especially like making art is fucking hard under late capitalism in Sydney. It’s fucking hard enough. And it’s like, we were talking

to this critic the other day and he, like, does like, you know, Instagram critiques, like floating head. And he’s like, people are kind of getting upset. They’re like, you’re so critical, like you’re tearing people apart. But then he’s like, get this, like, like, let this be said. Like, I love you. Like, you’re an artist. I already love you. Yeah. Like he’s like, he can go.

Even beyond that, he’s like like anything that humans do, like any artifact can leave behind is like the most precious and beautiful thing so important to be preserved forever. Like and like starting from that, like that brush stroke’s boring as hell. And like, you know, this stupid painting, boring subject matter. Who cares about Batman? Like next. But I think that’s the right way

to critique. Like critique comes from a place of love and wanting more, expecting more and believing that totally. More, but we don’t always do that. Like everyone’s heard the like the snide stuff and the stuff that’s coming and it’s just human like to be jealous, to be envious, to be critical, I think. The thing that bothers me is when people are like, sorry to cut you off.

When people say like there’s the underturn. They may not say it, but the underturn is I could make it better. Yes, because then. It’s like for me, it’s like, do it. Yeah. Prove it. Totally. Yeah. The best form of critique. I had a quote yesterday, but I can’t remember now. But the best form of critique is just doing better. Yeah. Like the, you know, the, the making a good example.

Like, yeah, like one upping like and that’s friendly fire. That’s what I like. Huge degree. Yeah, I I was a cool way to do it. Yeah. Complaining about a certain brand of poetry for a long time, but I wasn’t writing any. And then I was like, I want poetry to look like this, and I want poetry to be like this. And then I was like, wait a second. Yes, we’ll. Fucking make that poem then. And you hear that so many Times

Now, like artists, like, I made what I wanted to hear, like, And it turned out really well. Yeah. But yeah, just to finish the thought about the culture and, like, capitalism and bullshit of, you know, even, like, it’s really fucking hard to try and make art. Absolutely. And you, most of us will make no money or make like get no recognition. Like, you know, I’ve worked in like corporate stuff for a

while. And it’s interesting how, like, you know, you start to get a lot of like cultural, like, it becomes easier. You’ve got more money. Your family’s like bragging about you. Like, you know, the, the work is like the people around. You’re like nice. You’re like doing the thing you should be doing. And it was like kind of chill for a bit. Yeah.

I guess I just want to say like to be like recognizing people like your friends and like your friends of friends. Like that’s a really important currency when there’s not a lot of absolutely actual currency going around and. Not just friends and friends of friends. People you don’t know 100. Percent. That’s yeah, yeah. Also very, very valuable. Yeah, it’s like to support people that you don’t know and

write for them like that. You’re your friend because you actually like that stuff. Yeah, that’s important. Yeah. Huge. Yeah. And that’s Fan. Energy like and it can’t. You can’t feel like I fucking bumped into you in the line at sea from I’m like I love this way. I’m just like I’m not gonna be there like have that, you know, W cool or touch it anymore. I’m like embarrassed to pick up someone. Exactly. They don’t know me. I’m just gonna be like, that’s I liked your shit.

Like I don’t care. Like that’s the. Cool thing about being a fan is like you forget yourself in that way, you know and you’re like you’re like just supporting this person like for who they are like and you you don’t even come into it, you know like and it’s. Like, why do we make art and music? It’s because we love. We’ve listened to so many records because we’ve, yeah, looked at so much art. Like, we make it because we are

fans. Like, yeah. And I think a city needs to like, I mean, this might happen in every city, but I think, yeah, people in the city need to drop the presence of, like, I’m too cool to be like, be fan. Like, totally. I’m a fan, bro. I’m a fan of the city. Like, there’s people. I love that Roth, you know, it’s like, I’m waiting for your record. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We thought it was a Sydney thing, but talking to some people, like there is a bit of a just like big city thing of like, you know, like I’m, you

know, I’m too cool. Like even like on a social level, it’s like if I affiliate with you, I might like lose some cool. Points or something you. Know what I mean? Like and it’s like I got to keep the right like cool people around me and then like then I’ll be cool like. Music is bad for that, yeah. Especially like rapping those, yeah. You feel I was going to say like, maybe I’m just so naive.

I’m like a baby. I’m like, you know, when I go to some of these like Western Sydney, like rap shows, I feel like like there’s a little bit less tension in the air to like some like shows. But maybe that’s just because I’m. Nah. Nah, you think it’s it’s still. I think rap in general, no. I feel like I can say this because I’ve been making. You can say this. Yeah.

But there is cool is a very important currency in rap. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think it’s very interesting in a small, big city like Sydney how that plays out. Yeah. But he has a lot of these artists also, just like, you forget that. I mean, people are just nervous and anxious too, you know what I mean? It’s like, and they just have their friends. They’re comfortable with their friends and stuff.

Yeah. We’re all pretty nervous and anxious but like still come say hi to us, come. Say Oh yeah. If you listen to the pod, please. Hello, so you like? It yeah, yeah, for sure try. To yeah, do our best to like live out here. I’m like. Addicted to meeting new people and having conversation with strangers. I’m like, I’m like like making friends with the dudes that I buy.

Like, well, I used to like buy vapes and cigarettes from the shop down there and we’re like, homies, what are you working? On the under there, but yeah, I’m doing my astrophysics features. He was doing his. Like this is crazy. The guy at the shop, like he was like always like looking at his laptop like this. And I’m like, bro, what are you up to? And he’s like, his name’s Ali. He’s like, I’m doing like a

degree in medical biomedical engineering. I’m like. Yeah, I know. I mean those people to make art, bro. Yeah, absolutely. Robot in the gallery and yeah, the other guy there that works there. I was like, we went to the pub the other night and we like, went in to buy like a chocolate bar on the way home and I’m like, bro, like he’s like, where have you been?

I’m like. With smoking, okay. Awesome. Like good for you, like you thought I like moved out or something like that’s so. Funny. Oh yeah. Yeah. Good. On you. Thanks. Those. Relationships, but. Yeah, like that, that idea to me, like because I’m such a romantic about the idea of community and like I’m just like anyone that I see more than once around here, I’m like, OK, let’s

talk like, yeah, maybe we can like maybe I can help you some way. Maybe you can help me some way, or even just like, enjoy the pleasantry of each other’s fucking company in a public space, like away from a phone screen, you know, like for God’s sake it. Really is like everything at this point. I think at this point in the world, like I think that community is pretty much everything. Yeah, you know, 100% Yeah, it’s. Corny, but I think it’s true.

No, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a funny thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think we’re pretty close to wrapping up, but just before we go I would love to know Cal if you have any food spots. Food spots, yeah, just. All Maybe you don’t wanna blow them. All this no. Something that you feel comfy like. I said fan energy bro sometimes my I argue with my younger sister because she’s like don’t

post this on TikTok like I’m like no we have to they deserve the business. Never ever say that again. We don’t gatekeeping this family. People like you really make me laugh dude. You know that fucking post? It’s like, it’s like man, people like you confused me like I worked hard to this spot. Like. Shut the hell up.

True, but my fave, my current obsession is a schwarma spot in Granville. I think there’s one in Bassetlaw. You’re going to it’s called Albeek ALBEIK and it’s next to Ablaze. Yeah. It’s also next to another burger shop I love called Wiji Burger House. But I’ll beak and ground Wiji. Yeah. Is hectic cool. I’ve never been to Dubai, but

it’s kind of like people say it’s like the there cool and it’s open late so I’m often there like with friends and like maybe they’re not yeah, maybe like 1:00 AM. So it’s pretty good, but it’s mad. It’s like mad salty like the the I don’t usually like lamb, but the lamb’s hectic. Oh, I. Love lamb. Yeah, cool. Hell. Yeah, I’ll beaks my spot at the moment, I don’t know what else. Great. Recommend. Yeah, I mean, I can, I can, I

can rattle food. Yeah, I definitely want to start a food thing. I think it’s time I haven’t been to for ages in the site. Yeah, for sure. Like a food truck. Yeah, on and off food truck. Like food content. No, yeah, food content, bro. Yeah, yeah. People are always like Sydney doesn’t know me to eat more food content like produces. I’m like. Yes, it does. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there’s. There’s a lot of untapped like

Sydney, like we shouldn’t shy away from being a foodie city. Like no, totally. We need to take on Melbourne, bro. Yeah, the. Other thing is just like reading reviews on like Google or like watching a lot of tik toks. It’s like this was the best burger I’ve ever had in my. Life. And like, we’ll go and we’re like, no, was it like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like it looks cool. Yes. And then there’s other places

where it’s like, you got my order wrong and like this. And then it actually was a pretty fucking good burger. Like maybe you know, or whatever shawarma or like, you know, it’s one of the best falafels around. But like, because you know, like, so just like there, there’s a bit of a like hit or miss quality to the criticism of food and there’s, I mean, like fucking. Food is hard as fuck.

Like to make food, like to do a restaurant, like absolutely to make money off it. Like I have a hospital background and like, it’s, it’s so crazy. That’s like your stock is like, as soon as it’s in the door, it’s like like dying. Yeah. So like restaurants are inconsistent and sometimes people can’t deal with that. Yeah. It wasn’t as good as last. I was like, bro, I’m sorry.

It’s like a living thing. Like, yeah, it’d be good most of the time. And sometimes it’s not that good. Like, yeah, just everyone’s fucking. Anyway, let’s look. We’ll save that. Episode two Yeah. Part 2 with Yeah Yeah. Part 2 with episode Yeah. Well, that sounds good. Yeah, we’ll get into it. We’ll have a lot of thoughts about food, the. Food round table, yeah, 100%. All right.

Any shows or anything coming up that you want to plug or so? I’m in the Fellowship, the art space, which opens July 4th. Cool. I’m not sure when this will come out, but Yep. It’ll be out before then, yeah, yeah. Yeah, So that opens on July 4th. That’s hopefully I’ll finish the puppet videos for that. Cool, we’ll see. We’ll see, yeah.

But apart from that, oh, I’m also working on a Commission with a kill for Campbelltown, which will come out in about September. That’ll be online. Like likely an online Commission. Cool. And we’ll just direct people to your Instagram to find out more about that. Yeah. All right. Awesome. Just a little bit of housekeeping before we go. If you wanna pay us to do this,

write us a message. We’re going to start a Patreon if enough people write in. Furthermore, Hung Up Now has an anonymous tip line for Sydney food, art school scandals, sex scandals. Anything right in the link is in our bio. It’s completely anonymous. Anything you write in there may be read aloud on the show, so

don’t identify yourself or any of your friends. Speaking of friends, tell a friend about the show. We love meeting people in the street and love talking to you in person. All right, that’s it from us for this week. Thanks very much. My name is Matt. Thanks. Signing off for Aiden. Thanks guys. This count. Thank you for having me.

Thanks so much guys. Such a pleasure. Bye. See you.

When when the mic it’s time to because I got boss in a turbo charge like no, no tracks. I fuck your skirt, fill up in the handbrake you.

Show notes

Word cloud:  The “Sydney Sound” and Guild, the changing sound of sydney hip hop, diffusion lines, puppetry, the good old days at SCA: sink or swim, phantom permission, Breezy, fan energy -> community. Kal drops his fave place to eat.  Listen now on all major platforms in bio  https://www.kalanjay.com @kalanjay