5.1 NAS Interferes with Student Bake Sale

Transcript

What’s up? Welcome back to Hung Up. This is season five. This is a podcast where we interview artists in Sydney. We talk about Sydney art things and all of the expanded repercussions of living a life as a good for nothing, dirty, creative thinking artist type.

You can expect interviews coming up in the next couple of weeks with Claire Wigny, who just did an awesome group show at China Heights. Sam Hodge, the famous Sam Hodge. I believe we’ve tentatively locked in Cal, who runs Pari. Many of you will know Cal. And much, much more to come.

But today we put this interview right at the top because of some stuff that’s been going down at NASS. Obviously, you all are aware of the student protests that are going on around the globe in response to Israel’s military aggression in Gaza.

We saw some stuff online that we wanted to just report on real quick. And so I did a bunch of call outs asking for people to talk to us from NASS and a bunch of you responded, which we’re very grateful to our sources for doing that.

I just wanted to address real quick. We love getting tips and gossip and allegations from you guys. It actually is going to make this season really fun, I think.

So yeah, anything that we can pass on, any juicy bits about going to art school, about going to uni or about anything in the Sydney art scene. I mean, you know what we’re interested in. Pass it on to us. You can ask to remain anonymous.

You can send us a voicemail on Instagram or at the email in the bio and we will try and play it on the show. Let us know if we need to change your voice or anything. Anyway, just like a sort of a whistleblower tip line that we’re opening up for Sydney. This week we had a bunch of people who asked to remain anonymous approach us in the DMs talking about a bake sale that was, we think, rudely interrupted by the NASS, including the CEO and sort of, I don’t know, top staff there.

Which, I mean, if you saw the video of, you would agree, like looks ridiculous, like just silly. That incident resulted in a meeting being called, which was attended by like, I think we hear it’s like 100 or 200 people.

I heard a lot about the meeting. I managed to get hold of a transcript and read it and it was overall pretty positive. You know, there was a genuine, like good faith effort to actually conduct a meaningful dialogue.

And ultimately, I did manage to get in touch with one of the main organizers for NASS Students for Palestine, which is like just sprung up recently in response to all of this stuff. But Sevgi was really helpful in the interview coming up, just filling in all the gaps in my knowledge for it.

And we tried to kind of frame it in a way that someone that doesn’t go to NASS can follow along. But yeah. Oh, and one other thing is that, you know, we obviously received, there’s a lot of other stuff going on at NASS. It’s like, you know, there are, there are allegations are swirling, you could say.

Something about a misuse of student of uni, I should say, school funds, let’s say. That like, yeah, I want to report on it when we get more solid information. So if you have anything about the misuse of university of school funds at NASS, please, for the love of God, you know, text us, call us, Gmail us.

Our ears and eyes are open for clues. Maybe what we’ll do is we will filter in these tips and bits of gossip throughout the season. That sounds like a good idea. We’re just deciding this all, we’re making this all up as we go along. All right, Sydney, enjoy the interview.

And I will see you in a couple of weeks with an interview from one of those people that I said earlier. Bye.

Hey, how’s it going? Hi, all good. How are you? Yeah, good. Thanks. Sorry, let me just put you on speaker. That would be better. Oh, that’s no worries. Hey, so I’m Matt. I didn’t get a pronunciation for your name. Sorry. Oh, yeah, it’s Sevgi. Sevgi. Cool. Lovely to meet you on the phone. How are you going?

Good. Yeah, thank you for, thank you for messaging. Just being interested in wanting to kind of hear about what’s been going on. Yeah, of course. And with the group and all that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that’s part of our job. I’ve just decided. Okay, let’s start. Let’s do it.

Yeah, no worries. Okay, so we’re here with Sevgi. I’m a student at National Arts School. I’m a student, a part of National Students of Palestine. I’m a third year. I’m a painter. And I’m a part of you. Hell yeah. Okay, so tell me about this fundraiser that your organisation conducted. Like, when was it?

Yeah, so it was on Eid, which is the one that, well, we had one fundraiser initially, which was before this, I think, either a week or two. All the posts from Visa on our Instagram, where we raised, I think it was like 550 around that ballpark for a family in Palestine to spend on visas, either going into Egypt or just kind of anywhere to migrate to, to ensure medical status and just like survival, basically.

How did that go? How did the fundraiser go? So the initial fundraiser went amazing. We had a lot of, we basically just had like a big sale. A lot of students have done this at other unis, where we prepare food and then you can grab a plate and put your plate on and then put the donation that you want, minimum gold coin.

And it went great. We just kind of had a conversation and chatted. And it was honestly really, to me, like, made me feel very hopeful because previously on campus, I had heard some quite ignorant views and just from a lot of people that just mainly after January 7th.

Yeah. Where a lot of people just seem to be getting all the information from mass media. Yeah. Who were not equipped to handle or had the historical context of what was going on in Gaza. Yeah. And in Palestine. And so having this new kind of community and our support was very happy across cohort, across, sorry, year groups and different like bachelors or masters, like different degrees and stuff.

It made me very happy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so that was, so the first one went really well, it sounds like. Yes. And it was, it was on campus at NASS. Where at NASS was it? It was right out front of the library. So in front of that little lawn area. Yeah. It’s where we’ve held basically all our events just because it’s kind of the easiest to kind of congregate to.

Yeah. It’s, yeah, it’s pretty good. And also like Lou has shown kind of support before of just like being like, yeah, get into it. Is that, yeah. Is that an area at NASS where people like would, if you were going to do a stall, like, you know, let’s just say we were going to do like a bead making stall just for fun.

Would that be an obvious place to do it as well? Yeah. So actually a student who attended the meeting on, sorry, the Wednesday, last Wednesday? The Wednesday the night. Yeah. Yeah. It was last Wednesday. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Had said like in 2021, I believe, they had like a meeting group every Tuesday and it was like they had parcels up and they had, it was never official.

They never went to student services or any executives for it, but it was like every Tuesday they would come here, they would knit together, they had a sense of community, they would talk about things. And yeah, so it seems like it’s like a usual common kind of space that people utilize as well as like common rooms and stuff like that. Yeah. Cool. Okay. So you guys met in a sort of common area of the NASS grounds once and then another time.

What was, how, how long after was that the second fundraiser? So we, yeah, the first fundraiser basically was on the 4th of March. And then after that, we had a watermelon picnic, which was just like, I brought some food and we just sat and like chatted and shared food and just had a picnic in name for raising awareness and visibility and just educating some friends on Palestine and what’s happening.

And that was also no issues, no interference. Oh, I guess I should reference with the first fundraiser, organizers had been in conversation with Stephen Alderton about it and other execs. And there had been multiple meetings had. Yeah. Basically what was told was we did not get the go ahead.

So we got told, no, we can’t do this. Okay. We did it anyways. Yeah. And then we had no repercussions. They didn’t come bother us or anything. Got it. So that communicated to us that like, oh, okay, like we don’t really need to go to you for this. And you’re not really interested in supporting us or finding avenues that we can do this anyways. Yeah.

And, uh, continue to operate. And who is Stephen Alderton? Can you introduce him to our listeners? Yeah. So he’s the NASH CEO and director. So he’s basically like the head, head. Um, if you’re at NASH and you’re a student at NASH, a lot of us don’t really like know him. Yeah. Um, we don’t, apart from like when there’s big meetings and he says like a sentence or two,

um, like my, um, pre like introduction to him was basically, he would like walk through our classrooms with like, but he would like come through with people and like be like, oh yes, these are the students working. And I was like, man in suits, scary. Okay. Got it. Yeah.

So you had never really like met him before. No. So let’s go back. So there was one, uh, successful bake sale and then, uh, a watermelon picnic and then, uh, like a third action you could call it for this new group, like, uh, NASH students for Palestine.

Is that right? There was the, this was, this all went down on the third, like on this, on the second bake sale. So that was the second fundraiser we had held, which we, um, did on the 10th of April. Yeah. Um, same place, library lawn, where we had begun to set up. Basically. Um, we put down a table. It’s, it’s like a store.

Basically we put down a table with like, um, we had the flags on top of the tables. Um, and then we had the food on top. It was a windy day. So things were getting blown around. We did the best we could with that. Uh, it was like dealing with that. And, um, while we were setting up, uh, a staff member had come up to us and said that we

had put up like posters and stuff around the school that, that we could not have the posters up, but we could continue doing what we were doing. Okay. Um, he was going around taking down all the posters. He had like a handful of like crumpled up paper, basically. Who was that? Himself. He didn’t seem too like happy about it. I will say. He didn’t seem happy to be taking down the posters.

Yeah. Yeah. It didn’t seem like anyone really wanted to be doing what they were doing. Got it. Um, but then after that, we were like, okay. And then I had gone to go get plates from the, um, Masters of Fine Arts kitchen, the MFA kitchen. And when I had come back, Steven Alderton, um, I forgot her name, but there was another

woman. It’s an ass statement. Hmm. Um, um, um, all of this is detailed in our statement, by the way, as well, um, on what happened specifically at this fundraiser. So if you want to look into more information on that, if I don’t get to certain things, that’s all there. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so they basically are there and I come out and like, oh, what’s going on? Oh God.

Um, and I kind of join up with the group and it’s just this very kind of weird atmosphere where Steven is trying to explain that we didn’t get approval to do the fundraiser. Cause like, again, we didn’t ask this time because of the events from last time. Um, and we were trying to communicate like, oh, we believe that we would operate individually

now because of what happened. And he was basically bringing up things of like the code of conduct and bringing up like student policy. And we were basically like, can you identify when we, what we have broken, what rules we have broken? And he couldn’t really say anything. He just kept saying that we didn’t get approval. Um, and then, uh, one of our students who were kind of organizing, um, had said, uh, we will

not take down this store, like this kind of table due to the principle of it. If you would like to take it down, you can. Um, there was like conversation of like what we could do, like move the food to the kitchen or something like that. But then the teachers begun to take down our store. Um, the food was placed in kind of like this big bucket.

Um, the flags were then also placed in that bucket. Everything in that bucket was thrown in the bin. We had to, but before that we grabbed the flags. Um, it can be assumed whether they would have thrown the flags away. It can be assumed whether they wouldn’t have. I won’t really talk much about that. It’s just like what would have happened happened.

What has happened is what has happened. Yeah. Um, so we, we grabbed the flags before that bin was there, that bucket was then disposed of. Um, they said that the food would be recycled, which made no sense to us. Yeah. Um, mainly also like for reference, this is, we had spent money on the food.

It was like $70 of student funds and it was like Oreos, Tim Tams, chips. Yeah. And a cake was made by a student. Um, I think cupcakes were brought in, cookies, things like that. Um, yeah. And then, so they basically started taking it down. Um, and then this is also by the time class is ending and when we would have started.

And so students are starting to come out. Right. Like what’s going on. Yeah. Um, and once that’s done, they kind of have discussions with, they kind of talk to you of the different groups happening. And then the, it was kind of left at that basically. Okay. So it got shut down basically like in sort of unceremonious way, I guess you could say.

Very. And students have expressed that they felt very like intimidated and that like it felt sinister in some way. Yeah. There is speculation on why they did that. Like in all honesty, if they had just let it like left us for an hour, we would have been gone after an hour. We would have packed up ourselves. Like we didn’t understand what was going on.

Yeah. They pointed out that we had like literature, which like was flyers noting like the different protests happening on the weekends and how students could get involved. Yeah. So we’ve, he just kept calling it literature, which sounded so weird to me. Yeah. That sounds like a sort of legal definition. Yeah. Giving out like Marxist books or something.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Weird. Okay. Do you think someone like, do you think someone went to them and said, Hey, this is going on? Do you think someone complained? Yeah. So they said, um, we have had multiple complaints, which they didn’t like tell us at all about, like I haven’t, um, so when did they tell you about those complaints were?

Yeah. When did they tell you about the complaints? Sorry. When did they tell you about the complaints? Um, during that kind of shutdown. Yeah. So while we were asking for clarification on why things were happening, they were like, we’ve had complaints. People feel unsafe. They kept saying like, we need to be apolitical on campus. We need to be, um, we’re a politically diverse campus.

We need to be aware of other people’s opinion and like the safeties and stuff of that, which didn’t make any sense to us. Cause it wasn’t like we were saying anything anti-semitic or anything like that. We like deeply, deeply believe that, um, Jewish is not Zionist. Like we have multiple Jewish people in our group. Yeah.

Um, in the transcript, I won’t get to that, but, um, we have multiple members who are Jewish in our group and who are very educated on the issue. Like we do not whatsoever believe that Jewish is anonymous with Zionism at all. Um, totally. Yeah. But they didn’t, they didn’t give us any specific notes on what, who was upset and what culture

we were affecting with this. So we were just like, oh, okay. Yeah. So, so they shut this thing down. Um, and then, and like, I mean, I, that’s when I found out about it. Um, was like. A lot of, that’s when a lot of people found out. Yeah. Yeah. I will say like right after that shutdown was a lot of people started reaching out.

Hey, what’s going on? Hey, what’s happening? Yeah. Is there a way to get involved to help? Right. What happened here? Because I will say like, it was the most kind of conversations were happening on campus. Students had started, begun like students unaffiliated to us and the group at the time had started making signages and putting them up around campus.

Had been running around the flags and stuff like that. Yeah. And we were like, oh damn. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. That’s cool. Yeah. So, okay. So yeah. Famous for all the wrong reasons. Um, so like, okay. So then like, there’s a, you know, there’s a, there’s a big, like this blows up online,

like at least in the NAS community. And like, you know, I hear about it and I’m like, okay, that’s crazy. Like overreaction. Yeah. Um, much. And, and then a week later, no, a couple, like a month later, they’re like, okay, we’re going to have a meeting about this. Is that right? They just had one meeting or was there a couple of, no, it sounds like there was a couple of, a couple of meetings.

They had asked us if we would like to have a meeting with them privately. And they had to address what happened during the fundraiser, after the fundraiser. Privately, right? Or, or. Yeah. Privately. So they had emailed one of the students that used to be involved in the SRC. Yeah. Um, and mainly because they already had like that kind of correspondence. They were one of the initial students that had been in one of the initial meetings that

I spoke about earlier. Um, and they basically said like, do you want to have a meeting referencing the fundraiser? And we’ve had many meetings as a group to talk about what we want to go from here and how we want to approach things. Um, and basically what we came to was, we won’t worry about it during the break, like during, because we had a holiday break.

Yes. Um, we just kind of want to leave it and then get back to it when we get back to uni. Yeah. And then we had agreed that we would want a public meeting, um, that would be handled kind with like anyone who can come so we can have students and like staff members and everyone, like even public members who are interested in hearing from this and interested in using

their voice. Yeah. Um, voicing their concerns on how things were handled and how things may go in the future. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, during this time also we like started looking into like NASA’s ties and why they would react like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, and so that brings us to like the meeting, which is what, like, it sounds like up to 150

people attended it. Like they had to change rooms. Yeah. So I personally couldn’t go because I got rusted for work. I was deeply upset about that. Yeah. That sucks. Yeah. Um, and yeah, people said it was in the ballpark between like a hundred and 150 staff members and students, um, alumni, I think also might’ve gone, um, just, uh, just the NAS community,

um, in general. Yeah. Um, and there was a pretty funny, like sort of setup for the meeting, which was like, it’s a, a sort of talking stick kind of thing where like you get put on the list. Um, so this is something we’ve seen in other kind of uni groups that have kind of adopted

it. Um, and organizations that have adopted it just as a way of ensuring balance in debate and not debate, sorry, in discussion. Um, and just making sure everyone’s voice can be heard and everyone’s concern can be heard just so that when something is risen, um, someone else can’t just be like, well, actually,

we want to make sure people can have, or like people will don’t get cut off, which does end up happening. I will say. Sure. Um, but it is still mediated and monitored and pointed out like, Hey, we’re not doing it like this. Yeah. There’s a speaking list. Um, you need to wait your turn to speak basically. And who mediated the questions and the discussion?

Um, so it was a student. Uh, they were a chair. Um, they are also a part of National Students of Palestine. Um, their name is Finn. Love them. Cool. Um, and they basically, yeah, they mediated and kind of did their best to ensure that the rules put out first, which was, um, maximum of four minutes.

They basically did like a pen tap at, um, three minutes, uh, two minutes, 30, two pen taps at three minutes, three at four, uh, three at three 30, and then a complete like cutting you off at four minutes, which is why when Steven talks initially, um, I think the first

time he talks, he reads out the whole page of the guidelines he had written. Yeah. And they’re like, you weren’t really over time. Yeah. Cause I also personally think that if he wanted to read that out, he should have organized that with us and just read it out. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I just, I love the image of like the, yeah, I love the image of the like first year student

cutting off the like CEO of the whole place. Oh my God. That’s so funny. It happened multiple times. And I won’t say that it’s like, I hate, like, I don’t want to be like, I loved it, but like, it, like there was a sense of like, we’re getting our power back. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, you can’t ignore us basically.

Amazing. Yeah. That’s, so that’s like the main sort of takeaway that, that a lot of the, like, I mean, I had a lot of students come to me that wished to remain anonymous, but that was the main takeaway that a lot of them have was, was that like, they felt like they had a chance to actually like say this stuff to someone in power for once, you know?

Yeah. And might I say a lot of them were so well spoken. Like I was, I’m very, I was very nervous in myself of like, I know how people misconstrue what people say. I know how some people can’t fully articulate what they’re thinking, but I think everyone did such a great job genuinely of like getting across the issues that they were genuinely

concerned about. So cool. A bit of school pride. I love it. No, literally. So good. Yeah. So good. That’s, that’s really, um, heartening to hear. Cause like one thing that I took away from it and like, so like I was provided a transcript. So I am, I am like, you know, I’m filtering what I’m reading through, you know, the hands

of the transcriber and then like through like the voice of someone who’s not, they’re not saying stuff to be written down. They’re, they’re trying to make a point to another human in the room. Yeah. I think when I say that in regards to the transcript, like if some things may sound like not the best articulate or something, these are just directly from what people said. No, I, I, I read it with, you know, I read it with like, uh, you know, I think in good

faith, um, you would say, but like, you know, what I took away was like the, um, the slipperiness of language and how easy it can be to even to misrepresent yourself, um, or especially to misrepresent an opponent. And, and I mean, I like, if I can just, you know, uh, like this, this might sound like a

criticism. Um, maybe, maybe it does look like, just see what you think about this. Uh, what about asking, uh, giving, giving direct questions and then holding them, uh, like, let’s say holding Steven to these questions. Like, for example, like, you know, we’ve got time for like 10 or 20 questions.

Like Steven, do you support this war in Gaza? You know what I mean? Like, like why not, why not ask that kind of direct question? Cause that’s what I was thinking the whole time is like, this is all good, you know, but, but I want to know, like, before we leave this room where he stands kind of thing. A hundred percent. I think that is something that we, um, that I’ve been thinking about, sorry, because too

often in what is happening in, in the conversation, Steven just starts explaining the guidelines again. Yeah. It feels like he literally says at one point, I’m going to answer your questions, like pointing to specific people and then just restate basically what the guidelines are.

Yeah. When the questions aren’t about what the guidelines are, it’s about the principle of the guidelines and what that means for the students. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like definitely not having direct questions to kind of respond to directly and immediately allowed kind of the kind of, you know, as you said, like the slipperiness

of like not actually getting to the point. Um, but I do think these questions are things that we want to raise in a smaller kind of meeting with Steven. Yeah. I’m in the future. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Um, okay. So it’s, so like, can you sort of, uh, in, uh, like, so you’ve, you’ve listened to a

recording of this basically. Um, I can imagine probably a couple of times. Um, can you describe the, like, just the mood of the meeting and like, and like how you felt like finishing listening to it? Yeah. So many students in the meeting that I heard from who were in attendance basically said

that it kind of went in waves, like of like the overall, it was kind of a good air. And the, throughout the meeting multiple times, students say like, I’m very happy we’re able to do this. I’m very happy we’re able to have this conversation. I’m very happy that it’s being conducted in this way where we’re all kind of on an equal

playing field. Um, it was moved from the, um, MFA kitchen to the half space, which is a much bigger space due to the capacity of the people. Um, and I think a lot of students felt very hopeful with the outpour of kind of people showing that they at least care to listen to what was going on and, um, wanted to at

least be educated or know, um, the scenario and how it’s being handled. Yeah. Um, and I mean, like, just back to my point earlier about like sort of, language and stuff is like, you know, one staff member who identified as Jewish, like took a, you know, uh, a personal offense to the phrase from the river to the sea.

Um, which like they sort of, uh, their, their, their problem with it was that it’s, it can be interpreted or it has been, I’m quoting from the transcript interpreted and used by Hamas supporters as a call to eradicate the Jewish state. Like, you know, um, and I think like, you know, you were telling me about a teacher, uh,

who was kind of like another teacher who had like a much cooler, you know, like interpretation of all this stuff. But like, you know, like it, it sounds like the, the sort of the same discussions that are happening outside, um, campuses, like are kind of going on here in this meeting, which is like, you know, we, we, we do end up getting stuck in these like questions of definition

and like, um, you know, uh, sort of having to fight for this, like for various definitions, you know, like, like to, to sort of, uh, like to disagree with someone about the meaning of a really politically, um, like, I don’t want to say inflammatory, but like, like, how would

you describe that phrase? Like, it’s a politically bold phrase. Like, I mean, like to, yeah. Yeah. I will say like, it can be interpreted in different ways. However, I do want to say, I think to believe personally, I think to believe outright, um,

the fact like the, from the river to the sea is calling for the eradication of the Jewish state, um, of the Israeli state is a very, I believe it’s a way to think about it. That changes focus and shifts frame from the people we’re trying to highlight as a victim

at this moment, as a way to victimize the people of Israel. Um, when, although I do think they are victim, of course, to Hamas and to terror attacks, I believe that our focus should be on the crazy, uh, the, um, demonstrably unbalanced, um, victim

hood of these two people, if that makes sense. Yeah. That makes complete sense. Yeah. And I think another, so I’ll, I’ll kind of quote what other, another student, and then another teacher says, um, and if a student kind of points out that, so from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. If the freeing of a certain peoples calls for the eradication of another peoples, then that

should be kind of investigated. Yeah. Because then it’s like, well, why, why does that mean that to you? Yeah. Um, and then another teacher points out to them that, uh, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, um, says it’s more so a single party state where Jewish people, Christian people

and Muslim people and people of all backgrounds can live, um, synonymously without kind of this religion, religious idea. Yeah. Um, which look, personally, I believe, I don’t think there is a requirement. I don’t think any religion should have, should meet a land where they can be specifically

religious. I am very much a champion of multiculturalism. Totally. And the idea that like, we should all be kind of mixed up. Yeah. Like no place should be specifically for one person. Cause it just, to me, it echoes a lot of values of segregation and yeah, it’s sort of scary.

Yeah. And racism. I mean, and, and, and, and, in, in history, it’s never worked out that way really. Like not for long. Yeah. Um, yeah. And I mean, like Jerusalem is like famously like a, a, a four religion city, you know? Exactly. Like they’re all Abrahamic religions. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Um, I just want to say also personally, my view of from the river to the sea, Palestine

should be free. Um, I believe that over the last century, Palestine as a place, which is over the last history, basically, Palestine has been a place that has, um, notoriously shifted in borders, especially with the, in the installation of Israel. And then that also Israel getting bigger over time.

Um, I think to me personally, from the river to the sea references, the fact that Palestine is a place it’s like has been shifting. And so anywhere that that place may be currently, um, should be free, free of colonialism, free of apartheid, free of bombings, free of all this kind of, all these kind of atrocities

that they currently face. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Uh, I was going to say like, um, you know, I’m, I’m, uh, I’m not a journalist, so I can, I can, I can agree with you there. Um, yeah. Okay. Um, so we kind of like, we kind of get through this meeting and then, uh, you know, everyone

kind of, it sounds like everyone who wanted to speak got a chance to speak. Right. Um, yeah. Some people multiple times. Yeah. I think that was very good. Yeah. And then, so they all leave and then what is everyone saying about it afterwards? Like, you know, in, I don’t know, group chats or on campus or whatever, like what are people saying about the meeting?

Yeah. So a lot of people kind of were saying that they were really happy with how it went. I heard from people who weren’t, who aren’t a part of National Institute Palestine saying, but it seemed to be a very important type of like forum to kind of be able to voice opinions. And they were very glad that this is happening at mass. Um, and it shows kind of in hopes, like a very positive kind of shift to that.

Um, I do want to point out that the way it was run and stuff was pushed by us, by National Institute Palestine. So, you know, pat ourselves on the back. Very nice. Yeah. So, um, yeah, a lot of people kind of the takeaways was talking mainly about that. Uh, there was a lot of people conversation about, um, that kind of talking of the slogan,

um, being, um, anti-Semitic or whatever. Um, more so about like, why people felt that like, or just like not understanding like how you could read it in that way compared to others. Yeah. And why you would take that kind of framing of it, um, in favor of others, because it

just, it just seems as a way, I don’t want to try and mince words, but some students had said that like, it felt Islamophobic and it felt kind of not by intention, but that it may have had like racist undertones of just, of rearing this other people or having the least

charitable kind of interpretation of it. Yeah. Um, that you could have basically. Of that phrase. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It’s got bad vibes. It’s a very contentious phrase. It’s currently being like, I think in, I don’t know, parliament is the word, but in politics,

they want to illegalize it, which I think, again, reframing from the issue on hand that we should be focusing on. Sure. Yeah, sure. Um, yeah. Okay. And then, um, what else do I have here? So, so did you like, you, you had some demands.

I’m just like looking at your, um, statement, like that you was read out at the, at the beginning of it. Um, yeah. Yeah. How, like, how, how are we going with the demands? Like, like we, um, we managed to get the, uh, apology, which is good. Yeah. Um, I did a lot of. Very good. Yeah. I think those students really wanted, um, just to have any kind of like remorse for what had

happened. And. Yeah. Like a genuine type of remorse, not just like a, oh, I need to save face. So I’m going to say, sorry. I’m just like, all it communicated to us was that our comfortability was not the priority. It was other people’s comfortabilities. Yeah. Um. Yeah. Um, so yeah, got the apology, which I don’t know how happy people will be with it or how,

like, I I’m happy with it. Yeah. I’m happy that we got something in general. I think it shows that our voice is being listened to and that there’s some type of progress to get to. Yeah. Um, with the other demand of having a public statement about the issue, the same way that they have had about queer rights and indigenous rights.

Yeah. Um, that was like a big thing for us because we were like, we don’t understand why you champion, champion yourselves as a institution that will speak out for the minority. But this is different. Yeah. Um, like, is it because it’s more contentious? Is it because it’s foreign stuff?

Is it because it’s the Middle East or is it like we just didn’t understand that? Yeah. And, um, so, uh, at the end of the, um, meeting, he says, as I said earlier, like, um, whether he will make a statement that is pro-Palestine or opposing what is happening in Gaza, he says

that they will, but they want to be more educated before they want to do so, which I understand. But I think what I draw from that is it’s just a blatant, um, showcase of how undiverse Nass is. Mm. I have known about this issue since I was young.

Yes. Like, being Middle Eastern, I’m Turkish. Yeah. And I’m Muslim. Yeah. I have known about this, like, obviously Turkish, Audubon Empire. Like, I’ve known about this. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it’s been connected to my life. Sure. And the fact that you have no idea on this basis and no one. Yeah. It seems.

Yeah. Who is in any type of executive function at this uni. Yeah. Knows about this. Yeah. Like, Australian has a huge immigrant population and racism towards the immigrant population is rampant. Yeah. Especially with Islamophobia and all that kind of stuff. And I feel like it just is a blatant showing of the kind of how undiverse Nass is in the means

of, like, the only brown people on campus is our Sekis. They’re all Lebanese and I love them to bits. Yeah. Like, literally when I came to this uni, I was like, they were literally the people I felt most safe around. Obviously, the Sekis. Sure. But it was like, you know, like hearing, seeing my culture reflected in them was the only place

I saw it kind of reflected, basically. Yeah. And it’s to say, like, in a lot of areas, like, I don’t, I see very, like, there’s barely any Asian students, there’s barely any Middle Eastern students, but there’s like probably a small handful in the grand scheme of it. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. You know, that was one thing that me and Aiden have been saying to each other.

That’s my co-host who you haven’t met, but we’ve been saying this to each other about the, like, the Sydney sort of art and music scene for a while. It’s like, it’s like, yeah, we’re at this party and you’re like, pause and you look around and it’s just like, everyone in this room is like a white guy, like, or gal. But yeah, like, I completely see that there’s a, there’s like a huge gap in like, especially

the kind of Eastern Sydney, like art school, you know, sort of demographics. Yeah. So I want to ask you, like, sort of going on from today and from like this meeting, like, how, how do you feel about and how do you see the like future of this political, you

know, engagement, like, or just activism on campus? Like, how do you see that going for NAS students? Does it feel like a positive change this week or? Yeah, no, a hundred percent.

The day after we had our student walkout, basically, unfortunate for third year painters, we’re not at uni, but I still went and participated and supported folks who wanted to go and just like to show like an extra head and an extra person. Yeah. At that kind of protest. Yeah. Cool. And what was really, really inspiring about that was multiple students who I’ve been,

or like was coming with the group. Not like, like a good, it was like probably, I’d say in the ballpark of like 15. I didn’t count heads. I wish I did. Um, but it was in the ballpark of like 15 people. Some, I probably like two or three that I was actually familiar with. Wow. And then everyone else was students I didn’t know.

Cool. That’s so cool. Which was very different for us because I’ve been there kind of since the beginning for NAS students for Palestine. Um, and it kind of began as this like smaller group of like me and some closer friends who were pointing out like the things and our concerns on how the issue of Palestine was

being handled on campus by other students and by staff members and how things hadn’t been addressed at all. Like this wasn’t a conversation happening whatsoever. So then we started having that conversation and it kind of branched out to like other mutual friends and like other like people who weren’t as close to us, but still knew of us. And like, like we were friends in third year.

Yeah. Um, with, um, like currently. Yeah. And to see it kind of grow beyond us, um, to like first years who we don’t know and we don’t recognize and stuff like that. Yeah. It was very exciting. Cause like, it feels like, oh my God, like we’re not the only ones doing this work anymore.

Like once we graduate, this group might still be around, like this might be a club, like who knows? Yeah. Which like NASH doesn’t have like any clubs. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. They’ve got the like chilling on the lawn club and like going to Dalo club. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, cool. Well, that’s, that’s like really positive to hear. Um, and I think like the, the mark of a good, um, you know, political on campus action is like, if you start meeting strangers, like, or people who you wouldn’t normally have spoken to, uh, like united by this cause, I think is a really positive, um, yeah, it’s a positive

sign. Yeah, exactly. And I will say I saw faces during the fundraiser that, um, like the initial fundraiser that I didn’t recognize you, but it made me very happy. Yeah. So cool. To see people actually, um, getting involved in like group organization and stuff that I don’t know is, is definitely very, it makes me very hopeful for the future.

Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Me too, to be honest. Um, yeah. Yeah. I wanted to read this quote. I mean, just react to it for me. I mean, I thought this was like the best thing that someone said, uh, to Steven in that meeting and it’s a student speaking here. Uh, and they said something I’ve been taking away from the Columbia protests is that they’re

not doing what they’re doing because of freedom of expression or that they want to go camping. They’re doing what they’re doing because it’s the right thing to do.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, I feel like there is a pool away from the word like activism and stuff like that. And then, uh, in place they put like expression and stuff like that. But at the bottom of it, when we are advocating for this human, like for the ending of this

humanitarian crisis and the support to these people suffering, it is activism. It is like, it’s not because we want to be really doing this at the end of it, but we feel that there is a need that these people, their voices aren’t being heard, but ours could be heard because we’re in the West or some of us are white or some of us have more power

than the people in Gaza suffering. And obviously we’re seeing it with other universities. So obviously we’re like, well, our voices are just as important. Yeah. Great. Um, okay. Well, it was so cool to talk to you. Is there anything else you want to say either on behalf of the organization or for yourself

or like anything we should know about, um, before we say goodbye?

Yeah. Well, not really. I feel like the ball’s rolling. It’s not really going to stop. Um, if you want to stay up to date with things, follow the National Institute Palestine, um, Instagram page. I am the one that runs that page. I, I, not single-handedly others do have that login, but, um, I kind of take on the

majority of that work. I feel, um, and yeah, just stay updated, watch our stories. And if you want to get involved, go right ahead. It would mean the world to us. Yeah. Cool. Okay, great. I will link to that in the thing. So just click on, click on that, um, link. Cool.

Okay. Well, have a great night. Thanks for your time. No worries. Thank you. Okay. Bye. See ya. Bye.

You can find Hung Up on Instagram at hungup.au. That is where we will take your tips, uh, and we will publish something in the bio, a way to anonymously submit stuff to. Um, if anything in this episode made you feel like getting involved in student politics, we

encourage you to do so, um, or just in general civic politics. Um, and we would encourage you for Eora residents to look at anti gallery is a good source for, uh, local, uh, community scale actions.

Um, we are big fans of what they do for that stuff. Um, yeah, that’s it. See you in a couple of weeks. We’ll see you next time.

We’ll see you next time.

Show notes

This week we took a look at some breaking news from National Art School, Sydney's premier private art school. After interfering with a small student bake sale for Palestine, the management of the school held a meeting with dozens of students who wanted to know why the bake sale was shut down; whether future student activism would be dealt with in the same way; and would NAS leadership commit to stand one side of the Israel-Palestine issue?  NAS Students For Palestine: @nasstudents4palestine Sevgi: @squibbbles  Hung Up is now taking art school and art scene tips/gossip/whistleblower submissions. DM us at @hungup.au