4.5 The Max Easton Interview

Transcript

Should we start off him? Well, hello Sidney. Welcome back to hung up. My name is Matt and today, we’re joined by Martha. What else do we have? We’ve got author experimental chemist.

What do you do at the magpie? Bass player. I mean this the guys don’t have a taxi so we

just going to sit down and talk about your book, but it’s awesome to have you in the flesh. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I’m going to just turn down the music on Stereo that itís a? I faded it out, nicely on the Pod, but then you have to hear me like, negotiating her the mic. I mean, everything. Yeah, I know you see behind the computer. Just we’re getting the authentic

Sydney like yeah, the authentic Sydney airplane sound effects. Yeah, so, welcome to my cute little flat in stanmore.

I think first it would be really cool to talk about A book. I think that’s like how we came across, you really. And it was like I didn’t actually if you want to tell the story about discovering this book and like Max. Yeah I was just we were just talking about this how I found out about this. My roommate told me that it was being launched at the Ashfield Bola and I was like, that’s so

fucking cool. Like super local, Sydney book launch right around the corner. Yeah, yeah. And and then I got this copy. I think was a birthday present of the book with his beautiful dedication in the front. Thank you, Aiden. And I read this book with like, yeah, like bug-eyed expressions. Like the kind of detailed

exploration of like these kind of social forces and Geographic geographies of Sydney that I’d been like kind of growing up around and never fully understanding. I think to have someone sort of put it down in this way. This kind of very I would say Frank style felt very, I don’t

know, I almost felt like validating in a way to like it’s not like I had suspicions that needed to be confirmed, but it felt very much like someone had really examined this in a really beautiful thoughtful way. And by this, I mean, the sort of the whole vibe in Sydney, the kind of like, what would they, what would like Freud call it? Like the psychosocial.

I don’t know if that’s where I’d like the sort of the kind of backdrop. The psychic backdrop of Just felt like, it feels like really close to the surface and this.

So I’m trying to like, sort of work my way around to a question, but can you like can you just talk about the, the characters in the book and like, you know, your your relationship to them? Like how do you sort of feel about these people? And unlike, you know, if they come from somewhere. Yeah, that’s my question.

Yeah. I think like, I would almost feel yeah. Like not, they like Parts Maybe. Almost like I’d be like very close to them in some way like as so many of those sayings when I was riding them, like, from the third person, you have like that, you know, the narrator setup. That’s like, I feels like I want

it to feel like I’m in the room with them now. Like when you know, when they’re playing rugby league, I don’t want to feel like maybe I’m their teammate went around to gigs like, maybe I’m just there in the corner. And yeah, like so I felt like I was around them all the time. Mmm, yeah. Maybe didn’t know them so, well, which is where like, Distance came from sure.

Yeah, yeah. In many ways there are just three different ways of looking at the city to and the way that they Splinter off like as the book goes or get closer and full of part, I feel like I wanted that to be a reflection of the way. The timeframe of the book, went to goes over 25 years or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was so like, okay, with this is going to be full of spoilers. So, this is your first first vinyl spoiler. Alert. Yeah it’s all you guys I was just like so shocked and like just impressed that it ended. So recently in you know Sydney’s

or like the world’s history with like a covid kind of coming through and like the the sort of mention of the crossroads and casula. Like I don’t know if you sort of if that was just like a funny coincidence but like a comes up in the beginning of the book as well as like where it was like easy to get in with you know, without an ID or Of a did.

You was this like a bit of a lockdown sort of project for you? Or did it start before that? Yes started before? Yeah. So you know was obviously very different. The first draft was very different thing would have submitted that early 2020 so the pandemic happen but had no flavor. Yeah. And you know the crossroads already in that grew up across

the road. Yep from the crossroads. Hmm cool. That was one of the first short stories ever wrote that chapter end up being. Yeah. Interesting back was already in the book. But yeah, like all of a sudden outs is, you know, national news Pace. Totally, yeah, that second and third draft were kind of had to go to like, my to my editor and like, as I was editing it, he

was like, picking up these things. It’s like, you know, you know, maybe trying to capture the time too much. Hmm. Maybe not being honest with the time here. It’s like, all right, I’m just going to rewrite everything knowing this is how it ends. A. Huh. Cool. And in the middle of this event which we didn’t know what was going to happen and still do yes, yeah. Totally Remember Matt you were like two thirds of the way

through and you were like teasing that like covid moment you like it gets right up to like really close history. Oh shit. And I was sitting there in that moment. Oh damn yeah I know something like just kind of I guess the the medium of like a novel and it’s like all of its kind of ramifications and like the like

heft of a novel like it just is like a kind of big dog medium and it’s a slow medium like it, you know. Takes ages to go from the original idea to the finished product. So it’s cool that it was kind of like the world was moving around it while you’re riding it. But I think there was something so cool to me about seeing all these like, suburbs and places and like Memories in in print

because like will have a meme about it. Like we have like an 80s main page or whatever and everyone kind of loves that shit. And part of that I think is just having your like your specific situation. Recognized, there’s something like really meaningful about reading like even just for some reason like it was just so satisfying. Read like suburbs are like you know the fucking footy team that like my dad has been following

for like we just don’t get that much of that as Australian kids, right. Yeah. It feels really good to see to see that. Yeah yeah and I think it’s sort of traded as maybe less so now but like a bit unsophisticated which is like a mother wanted to push back against that. But I was always going to be very specific. Yeah, about my locations.

Yeah, and cool. Yeah. Things that Like, I mean we’re talking about before we started recording. It’s like, when have you seen rugby league in Sydney literature? And there are like less than a dozen. Yeah, that’s just like Russ. I’m going hunting for. Yeah, you know, like it seems like both handed mentions and

that’s it, right? Yeah. Which is just because I think of like the US and like I’m also like an NFL fan. And yeah, you would, you would feel like if you played fucking American football as a kid like that would have been represented represented represented and everyone knows what that’s like, you’re like We, and we can get to this later. Like, not only are we like is

rugby league, not talked about, but also, like in the scenes that it seems like we’ve ended up in like art scenes and Underground Music sayings. And this is like, a theme of the book. Like, I don’t know, like, what your group is like Max but definitely for me, like, you know, people like we don’t watch Bots like, don’t talk about spots around any kind of thing like, especially 40.

Like, yeah, maybe soccer, or like tennis, but, like, rugby lie, there has been a small small separatist movement at this House that I was saying. There’s a barbecue at to remove the sign next to the TV that says, no Sports on the TV. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I’m part of the movement. I’m out of myself as as one of

the external forces, but I just wanted to say something about. So like I think also, before we started recording, we were talking about Sydney, like having this kind of moment at the moment. And I mean, I’m theorizing. A lot of people probably think also that it’s like a reaction to covid and like, you know, having the scarcity Of something

shown to you. I think like something about writing about Sydney and Australia is so like it’s always going to be so kind of colorful and inventive because we don’t we I mean that we do have our stereotypes but we just don’t have this enormous body of work to like sort of weigh us down, you know like writing something about New York City would be

almost impossible. Yeah. And like all the writing that I see about New York City, at the moment is deeply experimental in like every sort of layer of it. I think because it just Has to be but like, writing about Sydney even just like, like publishing a list of Sydney suburbs would feel experimental somehow, you know.

So we were kind of talking about this before but I want to get it. Like, on are do you, how do you feel about Sydney at the moment and like, what is what is your sort of estimation of Sydney as like, a city to live in? I’ve always loved Sidney a lot, you know, even even when I wasn’t having a good time here, like I’ve always enjoyed the

sort of balance That there is between not having anything to do and having stuff to do, and that’s sort of feeling that I fell. It creates, which is where you have to make something of it, mmm, which is what charges like DIY world for me with so much energy. There’s this some like no you can’t just go to the Corner Pub

every weekend and watch musics. Like we have to make music extension. Someone asked to make a venue and yeah, yeah that necessity, yeah, the professionalizing of it. In a way to bring it back into, yeah, those DIY sort of Ethics. But if it was like a city like Nashville, Nashville, where but industry is like in its DNA.

I mean, I think we would all we would all love. I mean, do you think we would like that? What do you think we would prefer that? You know, I don’t know. Yeah, it’s hard to hard to kind of like see me because that does exist in Sydney. Like it is also a huge music industry City where I’m like there’s private Music Academy And there’s people training to

be managers. Yep. You know letter major record label offices or true. Yeah. Spotify office in Sydney that sort of stuff. It’s just feel very happy. Yeah. Yeah yeah top-heavy and underneath everything is splintered. Yes. Yeah. The music that because we will cross paths yes, ever meeting.

Yeah. 10 years. I’m totally yeah it’s so splinted that like you know, Like people just come, go start watching some gigs, start joining some bands, and they’ll join some bands with. Like maybe someone dropped out of James C Music Academy because I hated it. Yeah. And maybe someone is just like touching a guitar for the first time. Yeah. Totally like, old old head

Atticus Punk’s like from from black wire? Yeah, yeah. All the way house saying, yeah, stuff. Totally it all cross his path. Yeah, I think that’s that’s the thing that I really love the most about the scene here, is that, it’s not, it’s just not big enough to see, Properly Splinter, off into enclaves, that don’t cross over, like, we just don’t have the population

and the space, or the music venues really for that. And so everyone kind of has to share spaces, you know? Like like the Lansdowne is a good example, like they play. Like just about every fucking genre of music there. I don’t really like going there anymore because me like creepy Vibes. Yeah, that’s it. I don’t know what that is and it is the mixture of like some

people and like a wild night out who don’t like yeah. Get it. Yeah. Okay, last time I went past those, it had like a big fucking line of like, crisp. White, like a business show in the morning. Huh. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, for sure. And put on the rain. Yeah, yeah. That’s interesting. It’s hard to tie down because, yeah, it’s like so many impulses. I feel like we kind of touched on, like, you know, gatekeeping and like off. Are this is like gatekeeping and like being cool. But also, it feels like, when I reflected also feels like a city where life, Like you really can’t just be like here’s my new

project and maybe that’s not unique to Sydney but it seems like you can really just like create mmm you know like we have all just like been like it felt feels really easy to just be like okay I’m gonna do this. Yeah artistic thing yes like it feels like it’s encouraged to just fucking get it going but then like on the other hand people in these huge cities do

that shit all the time like like really going to be another guest in Brooklyn and now it’s yes I am. Yeah, okay. Like I guess people just want to do that show. Anywhere. Yeah, but I do feel like I was reading like some old poetry stuff back in the day, like letters from like Ozzy poets and writers from like the early 20th century and they were talking

about like, needing a London hearing, which was like your work, isn’t really valid until you’ve had a London hearing, and it’s like the earliest version of this like, or like an early version of this like cultural cringe words like Ozzy Riders are kind of lame. Like and don’t do right about like the Australian flowers. Go to England and write about like the beautiful British flowers, and it seems like Like

one thing now is like you don’t have to do that anymore. Like when we first started this podcast we would ask people. Like I do like it here, or do you need? Do you want to go overseas? Because that’s like, was our impulse. We’re like yeah. We want to go to London. We want to go to Berlin and my people still do that, but like, almost everyone’s answer to that. Question is like now brav? Like I’m good. I’m good out.

Go for a residency in Italy or whatever, but like I fucking have a gallery here and I like it like. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Say yeah. It’s a good time to be here, man. Yeah, it’s a great time to be in Sydney. Yeah. I mean I was never fully like Auntie yet. I also just want to get that out there, but but you guys are also from like, did you guys both grew up here?

You’re from. Yeah, girlfriends. All that castle. A livable. Yeah. Well, as I like Kate, I was like I was raised on the Gold Coast. Yeah. And I like came to Sydney went for uni when I was 17. Yeah. So to me it was like Sydney was like a destination. Like I was always kind of hype to come here. Yeah. And then I think my like disappointment was maybe like

expectations and stuff. Totally yeah it is a bit. Different when you especially because the Gold Coast is such a like, yeah. And not only place totally. Yeah. It’s like, like, Sydney was always going to be like, for me anyway, life way better. Yeah, so yeah, I do sometimes wonder like, because there’s a lot of, like, Sydney references and just like, General

understanding stuff from growing up here that I just don’t get. Yeah. I’m like. Yeah, I’m from Queensland. Ha! Ha. And even, that’s becoming cool in like the way like, Western Sydney is kind of becoming like someone was like, at a party. I’m like a Gold Coast t-shirt like semi ironically but I was like, it’s actually kind of cool now which is hilarious. Florida, let’s go.

Exactly. Exactly. Yes, exactly. So funny. Yeah. The Gold Coast is kind of spiritually related to Western Sydney in like, in, like, a way that this book is like sort of, you know, purporting them to be

related. So I think I like, was talking to you earlier Max about this idea that I’ve been writing about like Extensively, I haven’t published much of it because a lot of it’s been, like, I guess die eristic or just not worthy, maybe. But I sort of, I had this idea in my head that there was this kind of, like, almost like a

social contagion in Sydney. So this has been going on for, I mean, in the 10 years that I’ve been in the music scene that I’ve noticed and maybe before, I don’t know, but this kind of feeling of like the exclusive like in group thing feels like related to the stuff in this novel.

All and I felt. That’s what I felt. So amazed about was just seeing like, brushing up against that adage like how Walt encounters that type of person in the novel? I think we sort of take Walters like the lead character in a way but they all get their, you

know, their time in the Sun. What I’m asking you I suppose is like do you notice that to like do sense a kind of an in-group like cool kids thing going on and like do you have a A sense of like where that comes from or where it’s going. Yeah. I guess, yes and no over that

10, 15 year period, and your context-based, definitely, when I first moved into the city from Liverpool, I had a really hard time. Like I find it really hard to make friends, right? And I was pretty lucky to like meet my friend, Josh Tucker to was a dress, that was a gray,

same dress up party cool. And he came dressed as Hawkeye from mash and just he didn’t know anyone, he just sat in the corner making himself mighty Dressing gown and a legend. This is. Yeah. Okay. I was like yeah. And he said bring me two black wire and yeah. Cool. You know, and I was also just

going to repressed on the weekend to buy like Neil Young records from The Bargain Bin. Cool. Cool. Nick Warnock who works, there was just that well if you like that you might like this rock record from Sydney from his band around the corner and yeah and that combination of things. Yeah. From what was first? Yeah. But even then like going to black wire at first like, You

know, and I was, you know, a little little little tag Cloud jock. Yeah, still playing footie. And like, showing up in a blue singlet and everyone’s looking at me weird fashion. Yeah, so it was definitely. There’s definitely you know and then over time found out, you know, through like making friends with people from that

times like we thought you didn’t like us. Huh. And it’s so interesting. You know, it’s quite a complex web, obviously, Mmm. Yeah. As to where that comes from like I like subcultural level. It’s you know I sometimes think like I have a very specific idea in my head of the way things should be done and I can be very cynical.

It’s like I don’t like the way this City’s going. There’s a lot of people want to get involved with booking agents. Yeah like yeah. Other people want to have a manager if they could yeah. Starting to watch this stuff happened. Yeah. And it’s like but you know like everyone they’re probably looking at me she’s like why is he so angry about me trying to make a living for myself as an artist? Yeah, totally.

Totally So yeah, I wonder like that. Yeah, that feeling of coolness around coolness and welcome or unwelcome how much that comes from luck. I think the book kind of claims that it’s more of an ethical. Yeah. Or an ideological kind of standpoint. Yeah. In reality. You know, who knows?

Yeah, I think like that, that may have to do with it. My readers like it’s kind of like a like a this sort of scarcity reaction like yeah. Since the scene is so scarce to start, And yes top-heavy because people do like leap out of Sydney and it’s like, okay, boom. We’re like we’re Parcels. I don’t know if they’re from Sydney, but like we’re going to play in fucking Europe for the

rest of like our lives, you know, whereas other people just flounder, you know? And it does seem like there’s a bit of a like, crabs in a bucket sort of mentality sometimes, which I always hated, you know, I got to say, if you do that fuck you like it’s the kind of tall poppy syndrome thing maybe? Or yeah. Just this kind of fear reaction.

Yeah. And I don’t really think it like works like some The people that I’ve seen that I really respect to like constantly supporting and going out of their way and they’re also like it creates this reaction when they’re getting involved in stuff and they’re putting on shows and that’s like a really cool part of it. Just as you were speaking. I was reminded of a scene that

we talked about today which is Walt, it’s like kind of 2/3 in through the through the book Walters putting on like an experimental noise show and it’s also on during the Grand Final. But this time, he’s like Cadet. So he’s books the show around the NRL Grand Final so that he can watch it and he’s like the

put there’s a detail where you write that, he liked sets up the Grand Final as like the headline act. Like it’s like rabbitohs verse Bulldogs like that’s the headliner. Yeah, yeah that’s funny. That image of you and like a Blues singer like at the record shop kind of speaks to that feeling of like, yeah.

Like and what kind of got Walt is trying to draw a comparison? He’s like, do you see it’s the same like Punk DIY, Punk and footy like it’s the same thing. Why don’t these people understand kind of thing? And some guy from like the Eastern suburbs doesn’t get it and Walters like personally offended, but then it’s kind of like this cool thing. You’re kind of like, at the narrator comes in and is like,

hey, the guy probably just like didn’t like 40 because he’s like, didn’t watch videos a kid. Like, it wasn’t this big personal, like you suck, like, ìyeah thing, like this guy just didn’t watch footy. Like, it’s not that date. Mmm. That’s just it just is what it is, but wild kind of has this Affliction. Well, He takes things like like super du-ha and his ideology is

like he’s got a little bit of these kind of like I don’t know, reminds me a bit of myself like as a uni student like he’s like strong-headed like you know like ideological things that kind of rub up against the real world and it’s you know eventually I think as you get older like you just can’t function like that. And yeah. Like in ideologies like yes have

to function like in the real world and a lot of it is just like social and like being nice to people and meeting people like it’s not It’s not my like, ideology versus yours. Yeah, kind of thing. Totally. I think, interestingly in the book, like Walt doesn’t seem to ever give up that in a seed of, like, of that sort of idealistic

like politics, which I love, I think that’s cool. A cool way to kind of go through that, you know, thing like, where are the world changes? But his politics are like. No I’m I’m just I’m keeping the office. Yeah, he gets the out, like, I can’t remember exactly where he ends up at the end, but he sits on George Street in Liverpool.

Vaulters. Yeah. Confused. A few people. Yes. But he gets back in the city. Yeah, Liverpool cvd. Yeah.

Out there and was walking around like, that’s where it would be a cool place where he would set up. Yeah. Where did the office come from is such a cool like like sort of obsessive thing for a character to do because I’m obsessed about space. Yeah. Like I had any disposable income. Yeah. Rent a space and yeah working it and you know jam out the back. Yeah covered like an open-plan like Library thing in the front.

Cool. If anyone knows. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I’m running mate in the next

book, more. It’s like this pursuit of autonomy. Oh, yeah. Mirage of autonomy. It’s like if I had that in my rent wasn’t going to a place that only live in after hours and and like, I could, you know, pay that rent in some other way while doing the things I love and want to do and think are

important. Yeah. Like it’s a real I don’t want to call it a mirage because I think that’s possible. It’s a possibility. Yeah, I think that’s at least for me. That’s where like every time I walked. Pass the police. I don’t go. Yeah. Totally totally. How would I do it? Have you ever had much experience around the marrickville like Warehouse seen

only as an in 10d? Yeah, like I yeah went to like early on was going to all those sorts of places and yeah, yeah. On you know, not a lot of acid. So yeah. Cool. In those years. Yeah, it was, it was amazing Christmas.

He at this was peak time to hate Sydney but also. Only enough was a very interesting like Renaissance of DIY venue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Remember Cosmos. And I think, I went to close my eyes. It’s like it was a venue on the on Mitchell Street in marrickville, which is opposite Wicks Park. And it has, I think it’s still

like Street Bakery. Good. You have to go up a ramp. Yeah, I wrote a whole like this was when I was at Uni, a whole like music, a logical thing about Cosmos, it kind of just came out as like a defense of that, like, way of life, I guess. Yeah. There’s interesting thing, I was very socially involved with the people at Cosmos and like it was it was almost. It was almost like this ideal

kind of colony type thing again times. Like we all used to sort of share the space is like a rehearsal studio and we recorded an album in the back there. And then like, I got to book a couple of shows there. I think I booked the last show that they had there and my my band played and it was just really fucking wanky like blues

rock band, but That was like in Vogue at the time and and it got so busy that. Yeah the police came and it all got shut down because I wanted to find out the front. But yeah I mean it’s just this funny like thing. That’s still kind of going on but not really. For band is like Club Vibes? Is that is the new?

Yeah. Sort of. Yeah mode. Do you ever go see? That kind of thing, clubbing? No, but I mean, maybe I used to a bit more, but I got ya over the last two or three years. I like really haven’t been going to many Yang’s. Yeah, go to type stuff and And work type stuff. Yeah. And trying to fit. Yeah. Riding around work.

Totally be less active yelling in bands. Which means that, yeah, kind of come across those opportunities a bit less totally. Yeah. I was like, you know, club now it’s like, yeah, 50 or 60 bucks. Yeah, ticket. I know. Yeah, it’s all night and it’s all good Hayden. Let it be known big fan of an afternoon. Rave ha ha, ha 8:58, big. It like the evening did and in

bed by 8:00 p.m. Paddington Bear style. I’m going Max mode. I’m writing a novel. Of sorts. Yeah. Anyway, I capitalist novel writing an application have a nap. I mean, my friend at work, got a nap. All right, cross promotion. Yeah, that’s yeah, that’s cool. I mean, just out in this idea of

like your kind of imagined ideal space. It’s like a library workspace. I hang out. Like I guess the warehouse seeing Matt and I both lived in a warehouse in marrickville and then like back in the uni days and it did kind of function like that. Like those are fucking Piano in the foyer, and people would come in and play and like someone’s cooking dinner, and someone just hanging out. Like, and then there was like,

yeah, we found out like, I think it was at Durham Ando, Matt. Yeah, Jeremy Mondo was like what publishing it was.

Michael is really lovely guy. I’ll find out. It’s smaller than German to anyway. So, I’m like, cool. Like local poetry press had like a studio that I like, where we lived and it was just, like, kind of that thing of like, you know, someone’s making art, someone’s doing, You and it was cool. But then I think at a certain point in time like to actually living in the industrial space. Yeah.

And I was super industrial. Totally. You couldn’t really do the Living Part as well. Yeah. Well, when we moved in it was, there was no events, which made it a lot easier. But then I remember, I think you had left or you were. Yeah, you’re already in England at that time. But I was writing an essay on music, but there was like a

massive like for a uni and there was a massive, like dubstep event going on. And I was like, It was like 2:00 in the morning. It was you that night and I was like, fuck, I can’t do this anymore and I always used to have people coming in. Be like, can we do drugs in your bedroom? I’m like yes. Okay fine, I didn’t do it. Didn’t ever do any drugs though?

Yes, the listeners. Who, that’s not the type of pot. Come my mom to know. It’s not a type of podcast. It was, I’ve got it. It was Vagabond. Oh yes Vagabond. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Now he’s still got like a whole bunch of books stored there. Yeah, he never sent me one of my books. I really yeah. Adelaide with my own government. Has been such a big seller.

Yeah, I remember when I was writing, poetry and Union studying poetry that were like triple digits is like a blockbuster. Yeah poetry. Yeah. I was like, fuck em. Fuck myrtle tree seems really hard to move. Yeah, exactly. Which is, I think. Yeah. I don’t know.

I guess I and I was like, jealous if I guess like, musicians and stuff at the time or even like comedians because I’m like, oh you get to like just Perform your thing. Like I remember get being and I talk to you Matt about it all the time. I was like why do I feel angry? Like because I’m like my poetry or whatever like the event. I don’t know if you feel like that about doing both like books

and you don’t get that immediate people are like having as much fun. I like around a book but I can gig is like fuck. Yeah, yeah yeah sure you get a lot of like friends and family and stuff hyping you up but yeah

no. I I liked it. I liked it at slower because I’m I like to yeah. I like delayed gratification I don’t like instant gratification it drives me crazy like all my you know various phone addiction periods of on made me really unwell. Yeah. So so it’s like stuff like

slowing down to write the book and has like a major project was really good to me on the one hand, you know, like I’ve always written but when I used to write for like online visit like best annoys the website when it’s right for them, it will go up. And then he gets Do you know there was a forum tied to it like order fuckwit and then like a media tour then you get like

50 likes. Like holy shit. That’s a good one. Like I’ve done something good. Right. When people start shitting on you as my God. No, this feels bad. There’s leaks for the book. It’s like, it’ll be a week. Yeah. And someone shits on it and then I’ll be a week. Someone says, I love this. Yeah. And I’ll be awake and I get an email from someone be like, hey, man, like I read this book. My friend gave it to me. I played for the Engel burner

cell below 1996, so I would have been on the field during that fight. It’s like that was the best feeling I’ve had from these books. Like, How Could what are the odds that? Yeah, yeah. Is that the fact that we were watching videos of before this catalog Ching? We’re doing a quick NRL education, Tommy, what are we

watching the origin fight? And we actually do a little reenactment, ask him to put it in the Since for me, because I just see I kept seeing the word cattle dog, park cattle, dog. But now I get it. Yeah.

I do like still watch footage and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Still watch.

Yeah, pretty much every game. Nice weekend. So him and you’re a tiger support, or I’m kind of a nothing support. Like I was a magpie. Support him growing up, right? And then when it was when they merged, I was kind of. My dad was like, you know, you don’t have to go for the West Tigers. Yeah. Like I don’t know. I just did instinctively didn’t like that you didn’t get it. Yeah. That was like, my first like

Market realities exist and I didn’t get it because I was so, like, you know, just sitting there scribbling little magpies and let all your primary school. Yeah. It’s like, yeah, that’s a crazy thing I like, when why just, why is this happening, how can this happen? Because of the market? Yeah, because yeah, they can’t keep making money with, you know? Like well they can’t keep growing like Rita.

Yeah. Have you got any thoughts on the Dolphins? I loved it. Yeah, cool. They doing really well, right? I just caught a couple of guys. Okay, is lost to the Writers like a middling team but who played the play really positively cool and they made up of a lot of like because they were new and the chatter around it was it like this is going to

suck. Yeah they just going to suck. Yeah you know kind of entering at the bottom and they giving this guy 1.5 million dollars and he won’t take it is how bad they suck. So they made up of just not necessarily rejects, but like a lot of really weren’t getting opportunities. Yeah. Okay. And then overspend. So it’s like a lot of like, young kids as well. I’ve called much. The players who probably should

realize, that’s like ultimate Underdog Story of struggle. Like, there’s this whole long thing about the new team and you don’t know, L team in UNR LT was like the Titans have never really done well, like the Gold Coast. Yeah, who kind of struggled forever? But yeah, I’m not what really watching the last few years.

I’m just like, as a Tigers fan, we’re doing so badly and I was like, yeah. I explaining to my partner last night. I was like, yeah, I’m not really watching. She was like, isn’t that like a bad thing? Like, I’m like, yeah, it’s called the Being a fair-weather fan. Yeah, Jack don’t people like hate you for that and I’m like, well you see I’m not really a fair-weather fan club going on like it’s been since I was a kid.

I’ve never made the final so like it’s really serious fans would be like okay with me. Not watch it. Yeah. And like I was just kind of getting into fandom in general like the concepts of fandom and I’ve had some people that were like super fans of like soccer and stuff. Yeah and when I was really into my sports like watching it I was like that’s so cool and she was like now it wasn’t cool she was like it was like toxic.

Yeah. And like the idea of like Like kind of projecting so much of your identity on to like the construct of a team. Especially where, like, in American football, like a recently, a few things are just like move cities. Yeah. And like that’s kind of a crazy thing because it really is about like a place, right? Like a team is about a location,

volume sense, of place of the game, Cool rugby, fan of the game, then that evolved over the last five or six years or something. It’s interesting when the murder happened I just went and started supporting the Sharks right? Because I was born in southern hospital and I was 12 and I was

like cool. You know? That must be. That’s my ancestral. Homeland connection to that place. Do you find yourself ever kind of going on? Like so me and Aiden have been doing this for fucking years now. But like we were talking last week with Roma about MMA and like fighting Sports and like we

were going for like, you know, sort of it’s odd and it’s beautiful and like We’re kind of saying like the Poetry of the body and this not do do find yourself, sort of appealing to people with that kind of language ever all like does it come up? Not. I mean I don’t really argue about it. Like, if someone doesn’t watch, yeah, rugby league.

I’d like, okay, let’s yeah, sure really. You’ll notice like this is yeah. Do you always been able to be so Zen about it? Max.

Yeah. It was like a kid or teenager. Maybe it was a bit more like schoolyard. Yeah. You know you like defensive of you guys. To be super Sony. Yeah, WF you pick your team. You pick your side? Yeah, my team was Xbox. I was that age.

Well, we about to have an auction. Ha ha ha. Let’s go. No knows maybe. And I was like, scared of because it was all that like, rugby, league’s dying regular, he’s dying. Hmm. And dad was like, rugby league will never die. You’ll always be able to play it on the weekend. It’s okay. That’s beautiful. Yeah, it’s okay. Yeah. What position did you play Max? I was a hookah, halfback

Guardian. I would have thought you were, okay? I was gonna guess who

let’s take a little break and then come back in with some more message from our sponsor. Shit. Yeah, message from our sponsor. Yeah.

Anyway, it’s back. We wanted to talk about another character in the book Helen who starts out as like a total natural on the footy field. And then, because of what happens is like the rules change. And she, even though she’s like, literally scoring tries and like, you know, kicking goals, she kind of continue with the

spot like is that someone that you that, you know, or is that, like, we want to know what you’re sort of working out through and like, with Helen. I think that was not not anyone you personally but like it is like a thing. When you’re under certain you play this modified rules.

So there’s no like gender claude’s. It’s like it like it, all kids can play. Yeah. And then when he turned 13 I call your doctor. Yeah. It’s you know it’s like well you play dead and it’s like you have to pass two or three times every tackle. So everyone gets to go. That’s right. Right, right. Yeah. And at 13 you adopt the international rule book. Oh so it’s you know. Men only hmm.

Back then, in the 90s and even up until five, ten years ago, if you were 13. Like, I knew one girl who is like, 14 15 and she tried playing yet by open Age. Yeah. Um, I was just terrified, totally because I play when I was 19, I played one game in an

open AJ great and even that which is like fuck, you know, you’re not dealing with like dumb little boys and yeah these like real tough guy. Yeah. Yeah, the the jump of going from like a casual like we were playing a bit of like soccer couple of years ago and we went from just like a kickabout at the park to playing with some like scary fucking dudes from like I was like this whole team

of Backpackers from like South America and we just got a fucking butts kicked. It sucked. And that’s a pretty low contact spot. Yeah. It’s like it feels intense but it’s not the same as a fucking. Yeah. Proper walloping. Yeah, but that was almost like, feels like Helen like, and that period of I think for her it was

just kind of like she’s a part of this subculture without the subcultural tag of like Community rugby, legal Community Sport. And it’s like, gone the moment. She turns 13. Yeah. And then she like this, not even it would not even be possible to her until like 2010 to have played open Age.

You know what to play? Like, under-15s where they’ll be like. Yeah. So there’s that feeling. I think we all kind of feel now. It’s like he sort of you kind of missed the boat. But it Like Everything feels a little bit. Mmm, you know, at the end. Yeah, this is like this Melancholia mournfulness. It’s just like a few. If she knew maybe she just, like, would have tried to come

back and keep playing, huh? Yeah. But um, yeah, yeah. And the Helen that she kind of grows up to be probably wouldn’t be interested in playing even if she could. It’s like, yes. Yeah, she joins like an experimental like punk band. Yes. Yeah. Like smoking and being cool. Yeah. Totally probably not playing 40. Yeah, but yeah. And then in that scene it’s like Kind of extra brutal because

she’s like in the in that chapter it’s like a short chapter XI becomes like the water rather. Yeah she’s a you’re just an assistant aspect at it’s like this gender day where she’s now goes from like actually having a seat at the table and not only like also being very good to now playing this like yeah, pretty gendered like, support role.

Yeah. Straight away for like a brother to her brother’s. Yeah, exactly. And I can’t remember exactly. But there’s some kind of implication. Is it George? The coach. Am I getting that right? Yeah, they’re like really close. And then there’s some kind of like, I don’t know, like sexual relationship like some suggestions in the air. There’s like I don’t think

anything right. I bet it’s like because she’s the fucking yeah you seem like you have a teenage girl around

like a young sister and she’s like super into 40 and fucking that’s that’s super cool. Like, will go to the good go to like our oval together. But is interesting just like it’s like a huge kind of thing, like dads and young daughters and that age of, you know, interest and like I think I don’t know. It’s like I see it again and

again, like dad’s becoming less interested in their daughters around the ages where they can’t like you know, gendered interest start to open up and the dads are. All right. Fuck this like yeah I’m going to hang out with my son because we can talk about 40 or yeah. So yeah. And it was interesting before you were talking I think it was off the mic but like the The 90s

Punk scene in this kind of like naive feminism or like a complete lack of feminine ways. That was straight-up sex. Attends. Yeah. That is. I don’t know how sophisticated the feminism is. Now, I don’t know. That’s pretty good. Like, around twenty thirteen. Fourteen fifteen was a very was like, a bit of a reckoning.

Hmm. And I started turning in large part led by a paradise Daily records. Go around at the time. Yeah, I’m Jazz. Brooking ran the label. Yeah. And it was It’s like one of the first things was a big event called the rag rag Festival, which was like a pseudo friendly protest of the nag nag Festival rightmost. It was like, all female or two, or non-binary.

Cool. That’s what is, yeah, sick. I didn’t know about that. But, that was really cool, really strong. And like it’s only been the last couple of years where I feel like Maybe 2018. When I was like, really active in music it was I would never have an old dude band. Yeah. Yeah. Like we never books that and it

started. So we dive last couple of years. It’s like like three bands. All dude. Yeah. Three bands all dude. Yeah. Three bands. All drives. Our favorite band is a band full of dude. Yeah. It’s like what happened? It kind of went back to feel maybe a little bit interested or at least it doesn’t but also I’m a yeah. What’s connected? So I’m like I’m watching things on my mind but certainly at that

kind of Peak political moment like you couldn’t even walk in the door. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. Well yeah, well, women are free now. So three dudes, like three days.

It’s like with you like average dudes and what we will do a podcast. That’s actually the most three white guys think. Yeah literally yeah. We’re doing a good job. It’s alright. Don’t feel bad. No, I feel good. Yeah, so good. I was making that as a kind of sort of see what do you guys thought I was serious for a

second? Yeah, I was about to stop like about to be like that. Well, we might take it out still. Yeah, that’s interesting. And then yeah, let’s do a bit more like on hell. And I kind of was, I can’t remember all the like flicking through towards the end. She’s kind of playing this sort

of, she like wakes up one Morning and she’s got like a text from the character Sue’s. Do you like you would just know that every character to just? I mean, he did right forever. All yeah, I wonder what it feels like afterwards. But yeah, and Sue’s is kind of like cut while down for like his sort of Western Sydney, separatist takes. Yeah. She’s kind of like, you know,

got some indigenous stuff to say that he hasn’t really considered and Helen wakes up and she was like, I like I’m kind of feeling responsible for Walt again. Yeah. And so she’s definitely got some of this and she’s the older sister, right? Yeah. But that Also feels gendered in the way that she kind of has to take on some responsibility for here.

Mothering pens. Kind of? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Hundred percent. Yeah. And I wanted to try and do that in a subtle way, but like out, like a Helen has to look after a baby brother again. Yes, yes, Ben. Yeah, right. Okay. I did think like, that was honest to them. Anyway, at that time. Yes. And it was like like, when

someone enormous Randy Newman fan, cool, when I was writing the book, it was like, I got all the way. Through. And, like, what was written a bit more of a hero? Uh-huh. Lucky. Like it was a bit more like, I never had this moment where he was sort of wrong. Yeah. All right. Good. Right. We’ll just like there was there wasn’t enough of a contradiction? Yeah.

And it was interesting, listening to Randy Newman again. Like I just like, I like all my favorite interview and songs have a satirical turn, like two-thirds of the way through like everything peels away, right. So I’ll build up, you know, Walt’s like fervent belief in like Western Sydney. So yes. And then also with time 25 years like okay now it’s like must be

like 2015 or something. Yeah it’s like in the book direction of colonialism ya reckon. Yeah. Just kind of getting a little indigenously. Yeah. It’s like let’s do it here. Yeah. Great great. Yeah, cool. Okay. That’s that’s a cool. I didn’t realize I didn’t make the connection after a bets a bet but to kind of have his like his whole thing kind of collapse. Like Jesus have seen is this

almost like petulant like sort of like a little bit sort of grimy or like kind of sort of stuck Stick-in-the-mud kind of thing, but yeah, to kind of have him fold under this like quite a simple like, you know, dressing down by someone at the pub at Sue’s, right? Like at the pub. Yeah, it’s really cool. Like I think another check-in that sort of frankness of the, the sort of the funny like sort

of the funny sadness of Life of these things. That, you know, you think might be very serious when you’re in your early 20s and then like you 28 one day and someone just said something to you at the pub and you’re like yeah like yeah that was stupid or something, but yeah. It’s okay to fuck up and you found out and you learn and yeah do it again. Totally. Yeah you know like Waltz I don’t think has that level of

reflexivity. Yeah. Yeah not yet. He doesn’t not yet to be continued to be C dot dot dot. Yeah that’s cool. I was reading like because I think I read like monkey grip by Helen God. I like in uni and I was like rereading this making me think of that and I was looking at like a review. Some older reviewer was

reflecting on monkey grip and talking about this like what did they call it? Like Grit lit, if you say that like, right graduate and it, like Helens named after Helen got. Yeah, right. Okay. Cool.

Yes. And that feeling of like the way they put it which was really good because that book does have this kind of like it can be a bit tedious this like circling and circling and no one’s like getting anywhere. Yeah. Air quotes but it’s just like we keep we keep ending up and like life can feel like that sometimes. Yeah she talks there were the reviewer was kind of saying like in monkey grip.

Like none of the characters lives, get that much worse, or that much better, you know what I mean? Like, there’s no Epiphany. There’s no like, you know, and Walters a hero and Helen is happy. I think it’s the end of monkey grip that like, I forgotten the main character’s name but she liked breaks free of java her

like heroin addict partner but it’s like in the readers mind like it’s not certain that that will be forever. Yeah, like there’s no like, you know, Freedom, it kind of and yet this book too. Definitely has like a debt to to that book. I would say thank you. Yeah. Love that style of writing and like a trying to think of other local after the book was like a

review that came out was mostly positive and said like I was a lot like it harked back to a lot of grunge Elites which I wasn’t really aware of God. Red, black monkey grip. Hmm. Like and he died with a falafel in his hand. Yeah. He’s like Andrew McMahon’s. Praise is like, why not? I’ve never even heard of it. Yeah. And it’s really good. It’s really Yeah, just so you

read it off to the review in Brisbane, sent in Brisbane. Black nineties Brisbane. I think cool. I used to be like stuck, like everyone is stuck in this world and they like yeah. You know. Collecting benefits. Cool. Okay, the next thing. Yeah. There’s like I’m glad this got roof. That’s cool. Yeah, you know, like it’s a bit like this like yeah, yeah. Totally.

I have if someone says that I’ve made is like something that I’ve never heard of, I’m like, no, it’s not. I’ve never liked. Didn’t have a passion of mine. Don’t be like that. But actually check it out, shows some real humility, which I fucking dig.

I saw the book actually down at. You must know the guys, at prop records. Yeah. It’s like a cool record shop and I’m having a really long game of chess the other day. Yeah, that place seems really cool. What kind of? They like pumpkin Rock stuff. Yeah kind of like some some cool fucking bands and like yeah they’re very dialed in to the scene. I would say those guys.

Those super cool to see your book there. Yeah, it’s really nice. Yes. Yeah. Works that he could obviously we played on the weekend. Yeah, that was a bad call again. Fully futile is futile. Yeah. And he’s like, one of my favorite Sydney bands. Like really short lived could. I’m wearing a t-shirt was zilch zilch? Yeah, we can do shit bag stuff

overseas? Yeah, that’s cool. Interesting, I just call that, like, just because it feels like, sometimes books are like, I don’t know. They just like in the book shop like that, we don’t acknowledge like the crossover. I like you don’t get like, hmm. You know, some other see, Scenes. Maybe have like that whole dime Square New York thing.

It’s like the Riders hanging out with the musicians are hanging out with the artist. Sometimes like the books are over there like with the nuts like so and like to be fat like authors and stuff to get treated I think differently like there’s different expectations, like you don’t have to be like as president Instagram. I think, like generally there is a different expectations. It still has a bit of those

like, you know, usually like write a book when you’re a bit older. Like yeah. I have to be like fucking 25 in a band or whatever. Yeah. But it was To see them together and be like, oh, this fucking book should be here. Like, this book is kind of about this. It’s nice. And I really want the book to be like that to like, but I mean, also, like, I didn’t, I knew two writers published writers before the book was published like I

had no connection to a literature saying. You’re anything like it was completely out. Cool of it. Yeah. So the only way for it to do well was to kind of connect, mmm, the things like yeah which it did, you know, I didn’t really make any effort I love. It was just, you know, I guess, but Virtual books, themes, or yeah, like my friends or

communities build over the years. I’ve found its Wayne. Yeah, but at least loved in literature circles. Ha ha, ha ha ha. It was like, we’d think Jim under the publisher. Like they do, like we’re selling so many pre-orders. Like, we don’t sell pre-order is very often, right? It was also, it was in the lockdown. Yeah, so it was part of that but it’s also like I think that’s

part of the like the DOR cultures. Like oh yeah well that will order. It will take a punt on it. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. It’s like the think a different Market. It’s like vinyl record kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Your friends or and like, you know, friends of friends seats are in that I helped one Atlanta. Yeah. That’s yeah. That’s cool.

Totally. Speaking of Records can we talk about music a little bit sure. We probably got about 15, 20 minutes max before we got to go. Let’s do it. So yeah, City Music you’re obviously played in a few bands, how many of those are still? Going maybe half of one.

Okay. Yeah, the way I’m romance is a band where Google is having is coming out soon. Yeah. Yeah. But their drummer started like a masters and difficult don’t have time. Yeah. Totally. So yeah. We’re just trying to figure out what to do now. Yeah, sure. Like I don’t, I’m like opposed to replacing members. Yeah.

This is the band. Yes. This is the unit. Yeah. This is who we are. This is like how everything got mad at someone who will do this with someone else. Yeah, totally. But You know, like, I don’t know, maybe I’m being a bit Welty. Yeah, but we’re all tea. I’m a very wealthy about that with my band. I’m like, if anyone of you leave, like I’m never returning. Like, it’s got to be exactly

this. These six people. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Do you. And so they’re friends of yours like, from a while ago, or did you meet in the band? Yeah. Yeah. For right much. All the bands are played in. Yeah, we kind of started as friendship. Yeah. Oh, man, turned into a music sort of thing. Yeah. How did you like, get into playing music? By finding like yeah DIY Sydney.

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I kind of black wire and cool. Actually bedwetting. Bad boys. Will like one of the first things I went to the You Are My Secret Show. Yeah. Like when I first moved to? Yeah. They’re in Bad, Boys. Supported huh? Yeah. And I was like my friend from school and he’s like these guys terrible and I was just like I was so blown away.

Spencer so good and I like you come up a bit and it’s like the kind of like learning on the job a bit. Yeah right interesting. And then I think I was at like a show And some friends. Like, I don’t even think we’ll really friends yet. Like we just watch the footy a couple of times. Yeah, it shows. And they’re like, can you play bass? Yeah. I was like, yes, knowing what

about it? So, like metonymy started playing and like my first band, and, and then it’s like, you know, I want to play guitar. Learn to play drums. Yeah. I want to do this. I do that. I want to be in a band with you because it like we like hanging out. Yeah. Yeah. And so you can hang out. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. That’s a beautiful way to start a bad. I’m always extremely encouraging if All that.

I like like my friend at work was like now I want to start a band with my friend. I’m like, yeah, dude, what are you talking to me about, like, oh yeah, I just told them to go to pleb City because they don’t have their own drum kit. Yet, is it get like we’ve had a bit of that like, friends. Let’s do a podcast. Yeah, it does. It get? Because I know at a certain

point like, yeah, I’m just I’m interested in the Dynamics of that like, you know, it’s still fun to do the podcast is still like a Vibe and we’re still hanging out. But there’s a certain point where it seems like from what I’ve, Came to musicians and stuff like that can be different. Like it’s also a complicated thing to manage like anything with friends, it’s like

expectations. And yeah, I don’t know if that becomes like a big thing. Like you’re like yeah, go start the band. But yeah.

Preserve the friendship as well. Just seems like a tricky thing but I wonder too. Does it like it must deepen parts of the relationship? Because you’re actually fucking making our tabs together. Yeah, absolutely. Communicating in a way you like can’t with words. But yeah, I mean I can speak for my own experience that with this man that I made it’s like it’s like the best feeling I’ve ever

gotten socially and like I said of collaborative project and it’s just it’s like there were six people that all like really love each other, you know, and it just makes it feel so special. And I think you can hear it in the music, especially on a good stage when we were all nicely monitored. And like, you know, we’ve got a good sound person. But, yeah, I mean like just that

feeling of like really nailing it. Night or like a rehearsal or something. It’s like, wow, I love you guys like, it feels like the MDMA Rush of like you’ve got to say it kind of thing. Yeah I’m sure you’ve had that experience, like, a bunch of times. Yeah. Like the best band ever played in was what? I don’t know if they’re the best band, but like, the, the cold,

the baby. Yeah, and we were all like, I’ve never played drums. Always wanted to play drums. Cool. I’ll do that and friendly. She was like, when I play guitars like you do that cool, we found a bass player, play paste, my friend Ravi had never sung before friend been playing a Bedouin bad. Boys like I’ll learn case cool and it took us so fucking long.

So long to learn how to play drums, like, along the way, like all this funny shit. We just like always happened. Yeah, we don’t know what we’re doing. Yeah, we played in Melbourne. I still didn’t know how to set up a drum kit and it was like, it started I hadn’t done something, right, and like falling apart and had to trap the snake. Yeah. In between my legs. Yeah. And the like, someone had to keep coming and push the cymbal

stand towards and I’m like, someone had to sit on the kick. Drum, amazing. Like trying to Yeah. It was during our longest song. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. That’s wrong trouble. Yeah. And being able to sit around after that. And yeah, totally. Yeah. Totally fun. Yeah. It’s like, it feels like fucking riding into battle. Sometimes I know what you mean about the drama stuff.

I struggle with that. I just finally bought myself a new drum stool. Like a good one and they kick pedal and it’s like, oh my God, this is how it’s like I’ve been fucking available. Riding old broken bicycle this whole time. Yeah. But like an okay one. Yeah. Cool. That’s Sydney. Music for you, have you got any favorite bands that you’re listening to from like from the area?

My friend bends putting out a new tape? Soon be be Dutch Shatner. Cool. He played you played drums and romance. Yeah, I’m cool. It’s really, really good. Really good weed. Like bedroom home. Recording, awesome. Yeah. AB star F. We are swinging between five or six, seven, different styles that I love that kind of stuff. Yeah, that’s like the newest thing I’ve heard that like, I

love it. Let me write that down. I think it comes out this week or yeah. Because what did you say p? Be Dutch. Shotgun uh cool and thoughts on Nick Cave? Hey yeah. M of my, when I was a teenager and then be, you know, like and then it was like, ah, I had this

huge from when I was a teenager to. Yeah. It was like, I don’t know what music. I like that. I’ll by Rolling Stone. It’ll tell me that. I like, tell me who too low. That’s the classic. Say, like a week. My morning jacket’s like I like more money. I never liked it. Yeah. But I was just told that I did. You say, yeah. Okay, with that kind of thing, too. It’s the easiest like heroic

figure of like the Australian underground. Yeah. She like, how much like are that he’s taken from other significantly better musicians? Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I’m not passionate about it. Yeah. Yeah. You’re not passionate about your dislike for him not. And I think that I didn’t think about him at all. I’ve never cool.

Yeah. Cool. I mean yeah. There anything else you want to? You want to say? I think it would be cool to get just before you go like Could you read us something like maybe from this or what? Maybe something that’s coming up like a little sneak preview? Would be cool but how much snow we got? No pressure. Are we going out tonight? We got ya. The whole book. You read the whole book. It was like a Prize submission last night.

Cool, that I had to try and write something in for. I’ve never really. I’ve always found it. Submitting short stories. Yeah. So I was like I have to do it because I’m got a second book coming. Yeah. And that’s what you supposed to do. Yes. That is exactly what he’s supposed to do it. It’s not very good, but that’s all I’ve got. Okay, cool.

So just if you introduce, have you got a title for it. It’s called epen TT. Okay.

So the history of Italian hardcore, Rocco began already trailing off. The screenwriter, sat across from him, his notepad to his right, and a recording device between them, you’ll edit this down. No, it doesn’t matter. The screenwriter said fidgeting in the steel chair set up on the edge of the sidewalk perturbed by the sounds of traffic. I just need details and context for your time with the band Rocco.

Not a suspicious of this man who claimed to be writing a film about contemporary Italian Punk while and holiday visiting the century sociology of key party, the squats in the people who lived inside them. M Rocco, who looked him up and found very little outside of his byline in redacted and thus distrusted, everything he said, and did he endeavored to make

him miserable until he could figure him out? Set him down a Barrio. Get us all there somewhere. Nice and loud with the students across to her to party of upper TV. All new Italian pop music is haunted by the history of Italian hardcore. Rocker continued swelling is be around. You can’t do anything without someone outside of Italy, comparing you to go to your knee or wretched or cheetah Chrome

motherfuckers, even Redacted, they Bailey hard-coded role and everyone makes these comparisons, you know, the screenwriter took a note, move the ball of pain outs away from him. Can you try to keep the discussion closer to your own band rather than historical points Rock? I pushed the nuts back towards the recorder. Our band was built off that history, he insisted. So instead of running from all

these comparisons coming from the anglosphere, we played to them all Iris, which is negates your own ear is played in Reverse, you know. No, one ever noticed, did anyone compare you to them? Of course. I was just saying that before. So someone did notice this. Green water. Said screenwriter. Said warmly, as though, this moment would endear him to Rocco. You narrowed his eyes and leaned back in his chair to get the bartender’s attention, who

brought them? Another two bottles of ready, the screen, brighter, hadn’t touched his last one. We try to mess around with the idea of where we sit in the world Rocco continued, we make music that we call EU hardcore. A singing the broken Italian that I never learnt to speak properly, that kind of thing. The screenwriter grew impatient with the conceptual discussion, Rocco was pushing the rock, I

wanted. It establish to these ban deep, and TT was more than just another punk band, but engaging in a kind of loose satirical Mission. Have you seen this play? Rocco asked once in London? The screenwriter, admit it when you played redacted Festival. That was a weird weekend, Rick remembered but I feel like I made Relevant to a few hundred people instead of 10 you seem

too upset, someone that night we played into the same base, Rucker Shrugged. Now, finished with eating, the peanuts playing with the shells in front of the microphone. Instead, they didn’t like it, the English turn, I had to deal with their emotions, they’ll probably confused because you were speaking half an Italian. Yeah. Well, maybe they should have listened to the other half or read between the lines. We had an issue with redacted.

Well I didn’t really but the others in the band. Did you know the time productively releasing all these Spanish bands from the HQ in the UK? K in a label got so hot that redacted played their first show in London before they’d even played the hometown. There’s a big controversy at the time. So we’ve been hassling redacted all week, trying to get the same treatment. Telling everyone at the festival

that we wouldn’t leave until you release down your record. You went to his house with his big banners, reading sheep and teeth. You won’t leave the UK until redacted puts out. Our record is releasing the record. No. But it wasn’t about achieving anything. Everything we do is about making a point. Do you believe in making social change with your music?

Rocco ignored him. No one found it funny in that weekend. The so when we played the second set on the Sunday, WHo shifted back to the a you hardcore thing we were doing that night, I started to point out every Italian in the room and demanded that redacted, kick them out because I hadn’t been paying off Italy’s cultural Punk, debt to his label, but redacted just looked at us like this rock.

I met a horrified face but I thought he’d be laughing. I’m curious about this, a you hardcore thing and what it means to you as a band, what it means us motive means to us as a band record laughed conscious of the Raising realizing he needed to be mindful of speaking in the present tense. In case you gave away the apron TD were going to break up after the next record. He tried to speak as though.

He wasn’t moving back to Australia as though Sylvia wasn’t pregnant Rizzo and Tony. I would still talk to him as though they weren’t trying to hold it together until that one. Good LP came out that one final chance to make something significant. I don’t know what it means to us, but we deserve to be understood and what way it is even T deserve to be understood. Maybe you saw her to the wrong

show, but it used to be, you know, I’m a big guy almost seven foot tall. I don’t look Punk or anything the First Advantage to introduce me as Le sham, which means the idiot and they’d hand out fruits, the audience to Pelt me with that was your idea. I guess like I said, noticing the screenwriter giving me pitying, look, it was my idea to

play the oath they made visual sense but it needed to evolve. So, I started walking out draped in the EU flag, then I made them introduced me as from Brussels. Then I claim to have been sent to the Quite sweet played in to take money off the door, in service Italy’s debt to the EU. You had a fixation with the debts of Italy. No, I just made the same joke

twice in different ways. The screenwriter didn’t love. How did people respond when you started posing as being from Brussels friends til all funny. The writer check the recording device again and went through his notes. Trying to stay focused is a truck. Blasted past them blowing Road dust up on to their table.

All of this alludes to a kind of political project the screenwriter said but I can’t see where it goes or brings it all together. Rocco glared at the screenwriter. I never said we were overtly political will had any consistent message if anything I’ve been explaining that it was just the opposite but you’re referencing Brussels debts, the EU the screenwriter flicked back

through his Notepad. Even historical ties to undergo punk rocker sword. On the point for a moment. Maybe all this stuff is and then allergy for broader social issues. Maybe it’s about a state of entertainment. We want to make something so incongruous that it couldn’t be neatly ready into. But something I was like, right at the precipice of meaning.

Something something that made you want to understand what they believe. What lay beneath with the barest, hint of an allegory Sylvia, our drama. When we started, she was really mad about Punk’s of the anglosphere. You all of a sudden in In the US Canada, Australia, wherever they will, just went, they spend is sick. They sing in another language.

She said, that was the only reason we got asked to play redacted because I couldn’t understand what I was seeing, which then was very hip. And to her was typical because no one knew I wasn’t even Italian. So you formed a band to mock the punks of the atlas anglosphere, you go to understand Anglers have had a weird obsession with Italy for time immemorial rocket finished his second Moretti and

reached over to take the ride as untouched. Second bottle Shakespeare said, all these plays in Venice Forever. Because he thought the you to go is wouldn’t believe the melodrama if it was set in England, then his Hollywood know the mafia movies and the rag to riches shit. And that’s what back again fucking Stanley. Tucci any shit, Negroni recipe and his million dollar TV show, where he searches fatally, while

he’s laughing it up in hotels, every second TV show with money pumped into it by a streaming service they sent in their second season in Italy and they do not understand the place. The meanwhile, what’s happening politically here? George Maloney wins the election. Staying in front of a party logo with the fascist flame blur burning. I’m just saying that, I don’t think this is all an accident. So you’re saying that Sylvia

thinks there’s a connection between a kind of fetishism for Italian culture and fetishism for Italian fascism. No, I’m not talking about Sylvia Rocco said thinking about Sylvia people outside of Italy girl locking for us despite having no idea what we’re about, which we found funny. But there’s a broader issue. Don’t you think like why are you interviewing me the screenwriter shifted any seat?

Because I’m writing a film about Italian punk music and it’s interactions with occupied social centers. So you said, but why are you interested in us? There’s dozens of bands here? Who probably the least important because I saw you play it redacted. You were the first Italian punk band I could think of. Yeah. So what I’m saying is you’re being here, talking to me is part of a broader.

Problematic trend is concerning the anglosphere is back to Italian warship right now, is what I’m saying with all the Intrigue of its off-white Exotica because the end of the day, what’s Italy’s? Most famous invention. The screenwriter stared at Rocco confounded by the unexpected flourishes of his Looking down these notes for salvation before Rocco. Bang the table with his fist.

9fp, it’s our Rocco’s bat leading into the microphone. If I choose more the waiter brought them more nuts and two more bottles. I’m already Little Wave of Rocco’s here. Do you have anything you want to add before we wrap up the screenwriter? Asked you done, already you covered all the topics are prepared for and nothing of what I said. Interested you enough to ask for a follow-up, it doesn’t feel

like you want me here, does it Rocco hum to himself? Why don’t you just write about England? Because I’m interested in Italy. The screenwriter said fidgeting in his seat. I thought that maybe would be the first step to move here to here. Rocco smile. You want to move to Torino? I was thinking, this might be a place, I could move to youth rocket. Took a moment to Chubbies beer,

then tip the new bag of nuts into his tote bag. I think you’d struggle to get by him. My friend, he said standing up why the screenwriter asked Sally you give off of Vibes. It’s very Rocco. Gestures in. The are searching for the words. Leave on you have a very any port in a storm feeling coming off you. You? I’m taking an interest in your art, the screenwriter applied,

my Rocco skirt, you’ll take an interest in writing up a story and putting your name on the front of it, that’s still taking an interest so you can do better than that. Rocket left looking down at him, that’s bare minimum. You do understand the screenwriter? Pleaded, I’m trying very very hard to do things right? Well maybe that’s the problem Rocco. Said finally in the real world you don’t get prizes for trying.

There you go, that’s a pain TD by Max Easton. Thank you friend. Thank you very much for joining us today on hung up. We’ve got to go, we’ve got something to be at, but, yeah. Any last words of farewell to our listeners at, thanks. Thanks for running the podcast.

Yeah, of call, nice listening back to it and it’s kind of screwed you to say, see why you like the book. We were thinking the same about a lot of different things. Totally over that first three seasons. Whatever? Yeah, totally so much, dude. Such a pleasure meeting you and fucking sick. Book hype to the next one. Yeah, yeah. Definitely do something on the Pod when that comes out.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Just leave us a review. Lovely. Listeners, shared around shed. Love ya. Thank you for writing a badass in the discard. We do see that? But we’re both so Offline that we’re just too, cool to respond. Yeah. And also, just what will share this part and I didn’t with any,

like responses. Yeah, totally questions and stuff. Yeah. And we’ll be in touch Max, on the Q&A feature was a bust. Yeah, yeah, we ever was too fucking cool to say anything? I mean, I haven’t checked it, but I haven’t checked in the meadow but yeah, if we didn’t get it, I didn’t get a ton of responses, do we now? We’re yeah light. But we definitely have fans. That’s it fans, and yeah, we

know. That’s right. All right. Well shoutouts, thanks to. Thanks, everyone. Paradise daily. That’s cool of you guys house red. Yes, I have a neon light up Jerome like fading up the track. So you guys know your mom do Do you shut out big? Shout out to a couple of weeks. See you later. Bye.

Show notes

Max Easton (Barely Human, Romance, The Magpie Wing, Wests Magpies the actual football club) sat down with us to discuss his 2021 book The Magpie Wing. We examine his characters Walt and Helen, talk footy, talk sydney music past and present, talk it all over for over an hour. Stay til the end to hear Max's shocking take on Nick Cave (Leading question).  Thx for all your support guys! Best way to get in touch is via the instagram, @hungup.au