4.3 Dan from No More Poetry

Transcript

But my three about getting into doing video. But where are they really video? Yeah. Yeah no one wants to see what’s going on. Yeah I don’t love being on camera. They’re just like that your pods that like photographers curse of

being like really like hard like just every photo That I see of myself, is this? Just like a personal pride thing, but I feel like every time I see myself represented in two Dimensions, I’m like of course you got me, you got me wrong. It’s just like throwing your voice like yeah it’s so normal and so you get used to it. Naturally we steals more comfortable for me.

The visual is bad always and never correct. Mmm. Yeah. Great. No lens is right? They can ever get it? Yeah, it’s always so disappointing. I know. Oh yeah, yeah, it’s like seeing a picture of like a podcast so that And listening to for a while. You’re like oh like schlump. That is a podcast is kind of

disappointing sweaty. Like the face that I was like upset with this one podcasting but I’m thinking of was like old fat dudes. I was like damn, is that the one that’s adjacent to fighting in the age of loneliness? Yeah. Yeah, we went out them on our platform. What’s wrong with this one,

dude? Oh, yeah, passion, yeah, yeah. All right, should we intro? Welcome back to hang up, episode 4.3, welcome back. Welcome back to the new season and our first guest, which I’m hyped for. That’s right. Yeah. Dan. An old friend poet musician from

Melbourne and co-founder and editor of no more poetry press. That’s right. Thank you. It’s it’s yeah, it’s nice to be here. I mean, I’ve been here for a while now, in the room, we’ve been hanging out a fee but now we’ve reintroduced, and now we’re here again. Yeah. I was here. It’ll sound like this is the very first moment that we three have met today.

Yes. Know that it’s been a while. How you doing, Matt? I’m good. Thank you. I don’t know if I like it. When you ask me that on the Pod. I never have a good answer. Yeah. Do you like that? Do you like that? And at any point? How’s it going, man? Like that? Well, I’ve actually stopped responding to that. I’m just like how yeah, if they’re like, how’s it going?

I’m like, hey. Dive into a story, but that’s because we know each other very well. You’re just like, I’m like, how’s it going like this and that nice story never needed any prompting? That’s true that I’m just cut. I just would have said, like, can you believe what just happened to me? I I found when I was living with in a house, full of Germans in

Berlin recently that they found both rude and confusing that I would greet with what’s up because they didn’t like so many questions. Well yeah because they didn’t. It because it’s like a dunk for me. What’s up is like it’s both a hello but it’s also an invitation to say, what your days like what happened in your

day, if you could be like, what’s up? Oh, you know, I’ve had a hard morning, I’ve been at work table, or you could just be like, what’s up? Oh, not a lot. Hi, my boss. At the Sausage Factory is really. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because I know there is all the sausage, but I’ve seen some like really cool cooking. They like, do you know it’s a

really famous. This one of the original like food art, dudes. Rick, quit turbine, Asia. Who did like the pad thai in the gallery. As I have kind of famous 90s food workers, really beautiful work. Check it out. Did we say that? Dan just got back from like, a long stay in Berlin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, love Justice. Applicants thought.

Yeah. Stablish that for the listener. But yeah, he like had a really cool that kind of conceptual restaurant there. But yeah, I guess it kind of gets painted as like, Kraut and Curry versed. Yeah. You get kind of? Yeah, I went to this one restaurant. I mean, this is like hipsters doing like, you know, German food and then it’s like German German restaurants, like the

kind of Meatball e dumpling and like some potato and like salad. They love beetroot they do. Yeah, I went to this like DDR restaurant like fool like you know, pre unification Eastern Germany and it’s kind of like a meme restaurant and they got cook food with like what, you know.

Soviet side of Germany would eat the Eastern side and it was fucking dogshit, but it was like awesome. Like one of the schnitzels is like it’s like think like spam like sliced ham in like a circle shape, and then it’s kind of battered and fried. I have these meatballs that have like this Caper and anchovy sauce on top of it.

But it was like, it looked like clack glue just like placed across seen a picture of this. Yeah, really just like goopy and fucked now. Yeah, I loved it when I was in Berlin. My favorite thing was all those like, like, my cousins from Germany, and he calls them like, the pros. He’s like, the pros that like,

go to the pub at like, 11:00 in the morning, you like start having a beer and a cigarette, we ever. All those places at those guys, you know, that are open for those guys. I just loved the flavor of that environment. Yeah, the shell really old-school pubs. Yeah, we some friends of mine been like she Market their artists and they have a good

relationship with this. Like one can I be He’s like German balls. Like cafes that are open like 9:00 a.m. and like people are in there smoking inside drinking beer or coffee and like Madonna’s playing or something like in the tiny speaker in the corner.

Yeah, they have a good relationship that they, they use their basement of this. Like, can I / to do archers and like, film movies and stuff? Cool.

Which is really awesome because it’s like, I mean, it’s disgusting down there. It’s like mold and fucking like stinky Dusty. I think used to be this is Like particular kind of German bowling, I think that’s like got less pins that. So a lot of it used to be a bowling alley down there. There now, it’s just like a pile of dust. Wow, what a great space. I love that. Yeah. Very like, a European melding of the cafe and the bar that felt

so good to me. Like, I was just Italia. We were meant to go to Berlin, but we actually got cut off by the like now escalating pension riots, mmm. Macrons trying to, you know, increase the age and people are fucking freaking out the as of today. So we could To Berlin because all the trains Were Striking. Yeah. Just this sense of like you

could be like you said you could be having a coffee or a beer. Yeah. And like they’re one in the same. So I was like, you know, walking down the street and that beautiful European sense of like we’re always in public like this Rider. I forget who it was but a really famous writer was like it’s almost as if parisians are like like afraid of not being on the street when they’re in public they like we must always be like

on show and be like, you know, communicating on the street I guess it’s like Like I always joke, like I don’t exist if I, if I delete my Instagram, you know, it’s like I’ve turned into a ghost. There was definitely that like that sort of feeling in that sort of New Paris like post-revolution of like, you know, we’re we’re we’re sort of

seeing to be living and like, you know, to show yourself in public especially like, you know, with whatever marker of status is like to really be sort of embodying yourself in that way like publicly. Yeah and it’s something I think that Like I would love to hear like how you felt coming back to Australia, but that is one of the things that I feel is like

most starkly different about Europe in general, like I was in London, Paris. I’ve kind of lived there and I’ve been there. But most recently I was there and just this real sense of like just like public visibility. Like, it feels way more pronounced like Sydney after nine or ten like during the week.

Like even we’re in stanmore right now recording and it’s silent silent. Night-night ago, almost eerily, scared to encounter eerily Corner being? Yeah, the Streets of San Juan. Yeah, it’s very, it’s very weird. I always, I find myself accidentally like sneaking up on people. You know, you walk faster than someone and they’re like kind of ahead. And then like now the right

behind there, right in front of you and it’s dark. Fuck, I’m not trying to like chase you down but yeah just you know. Yeah I slow down sometimes just to not. Yes. Yeah I just I across the road to the waves. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So awkward just gotta commit. I couldn’t make the decision. Yeah, just slow down. And, yeah, the worst is.

It’s all about the pacing, right? It’s way too hot like next to each other and your gait is too, too close to each other yet. No one can clearly overtake. Yeah, that’s like you mean really need to like tie your shoes? Oh yeah, but not in my shoes have a Genesis anymore so really you’ve gone? No lace. Well, I got a couple. He’s probably got those Li see right now.

I got the marks and I got the fucking speed. You know? The Salomon speed. Yeah. What are you just like it’s a straw. Okay, that’s string. Very nice. Very nice stirring. Yes, my question I guess I can adjust my drawstring. Yeah, you can adjust it in time. Lost my audio, I’m back. Any sort of comment on, what Aiden was sort of drilling down

on like the sort of public? Yeah, thing, it’s weird like, I’ve German, like Berlin is very quiet after 10 to weirdly like cuz the it’s all apartment. So like people are just in and then they’re in and like they’re also quite polite in that. Way. Yeah, it does feel like Yeah, I

guess so the world just seems to be outside more or something for sure. Yeah, I guess I had another. This is kind of a bit more of a like formed question but I remember reading like some poet in like the early 20th century in Australia, talking about like a London hearing and it was

framed in the sense of like it was like you’re not a real poet until you’ve made it in London or like, right substitute yoga reading, sorry, like an Australian like This was in the context of like an Australian Rider and they were like, you have to go in like establish yourself in Europe to be considered like a good poet or poet worth, you know, in this

right. Like modernist cents. And I did like I graduated uni like 10 years ago and I did. And we’ve talked about this a lot like this kind of like pipeline from. Yeah, you know, suburbs to Sydney or Melbourne to London or Berlin or yeah, such a common. And I remember when I first made that move at 21, I felt a bit of

like, guilt. I Like I actually had I was like, am I just like, should I be putting in my work in in Sydney and like building this up? Or I’m like there’s not enough here. Yeah, I just I kind of wanted to get your bike General sense around that like. Yeah. Because you’ve done a lot. He and in Melbourne, like yeah, for the scene. And but yeah, yeah.

And then like also in Europe, I guess I don’t know. Part of me feels like that’s a hang-up of like colonialism as well, like that like desire to get back to the motherland or Um think you know and like and prove yourselves like if anything like right now it just feels like there are just all

these plates spinning it different like points in the like different places in the world and I just want to kind of keep stopping by and like keep them spinning.

Yeah. I don’t know. Like, moving to Berlin. Moving to any like new city is like, oh, fuck, I have to like start everything again. I could such a totally different energy to be, like, I have to be social in this very particular way and like, Open in a very like specific way, which is exciting and fun, I guess, but it’s like laborious to this is scary.

Yeah, yeah. But that pipelines real, I mean, I feel like yeah when you go to your feels like the world’s smaller to me, hmm, I would say how. So it just feels like I don’t know CDs, just become like it just, I guess a lot of the kind of mystery of it dissolved or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And like, You start to realize, like even after a few months ago, this city small to even though it’s big. Yeah. And like, that’s what I saw is about, Sydney and Melbourne Yang Wei. Yeah, I felt that way about Bowl into, it’s like, oh, I can kind of comprehend this. Yeah, you know, it’s not like it’s not like, I’m never going to really, you know, see the edges of it. I’ll be like, lost in this

Metropolis. Yeah. It’s a lost feeling for sure. And also, I feel, like I could be there for 10 in the like, same way. I could be there for 10 years and like, still no, like, very little about. It will be discovering stuff. Yeah, but like, And yet feels small, I guess that’s also like, like, a social thing or like the shrines of people I want to hang

out with. Hmm. So then it feels small, hmm? Quite quickly. Yeah, I mean, there’s so much to be said like, yeah, I think my partner had a very similar feeling of like the mystery of like I want to move overseas, I want to move overseas and then we got to London and she had very similar like shit. Like you know, this is starting from scratch and of course you have points there and all the complexity and then yeah it is

it is a really big decision. And I think at the end of I like your like social connections and you’re like, your actual, this stuff that we’ve built up is, it’s always going to be more important. I don’t know if I could do another, like, full move. It would probably be like these temporary like a six-month excursions. Or yes, corrosion. But yeah, for hide.

I’ve done it, and it was fun, but like Jesus Christ, really shakes? Your world? And I was like, yeah, I came back like three years later, like, I was able to kind of rebuild. Yeah. Like I know people who. Yeah, I know. Oh yeah. You’re like they went for too long and they’re like, yeah. I give a fuck about you anymore. You yeah. You abandoned us. Yeah.

There’s also that feeling I think that’s just like. Yeah. You realize how fucking far away like this country is yeah. So far away. Yeah. So really it’s like for anyone in Europe? There’s no like it’s like yeah I’m going to go live in Paris now for like a year or two and it’s like okay well Mike. See you next weekend anyway? Yeah exactly. Yeah, you’re around.

Yeah. Or even going to like America or laughs. Yeah, I know. That’s the funny thing is like, Like moving to Melbourne really is like fuck. What am I going to see you again you know? Yeah yeah. Yeah Australia’s here which and it’s far away. We’ve got both types of isolation like internal and external. So yeah, yeah.

Um could we get into some like poetry stuff? Yeah. Why don’t you tell those of our listeners who don’t know about the project like just yeah, thing or two about? No, poetry actually write up the up the front. We had a question which was wise It called No More. Poetry oh yeah, that’s a good

question. Um, I think I change on what it, what it means all the time. Wow, that’s yeah. Originally It just seemed funny to me. Yeah, and I think that, like, I think the opposite, I think lots

of poetry is good. I think everyone should be a poet. Everyone should right? Absolutely, it doesn’t mean everyone should share it, but I think everyone should try it. Yeah. Apparently it’s II when I was like looking at art, when I was like, I’ll decide on this. Apparently, there’s some line that Andy Warhol, said about Nomo poetry, which I didn’t know

when I chose the name. Sure, yeah. Hard kind of hard question, answer. I kind of Like really remember? I just think it was funny. Yeah. That’s that’s a completely valid outside. Yeah. Very like I’m titling. An artwork or a song. Yeah. Like I try not to think too that me too long on titling because then you get, I think have to be quick because then you get lost in doubt and then becomes it’s

about. It’s going to be a bad name. Yeah. And I can’t strike. Yeah, I’ve titled a lot of things. Yeah, self. And I realized at some stage that there’s a bit of an obsession about that the the content like sort of Or the title needing to distill the content somehow, I think it’s just not very interesting or

useful. And yeah, I think it’s much more interesting just to have a title as like, literally it’s even just like you know, it’s not random in that sense but it’s like yeah, it’s just an additional image, you know. Yeah. On that. I also think it’s important like I do it is important. I do have a bit of a like all right. I cringe at like an Untitled or Frank O’Hara mode, just poem.

Yeah, like, I’m like it’s fine. It’s another line. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let’s do. Yeah. It’s like like an artwork. I don’t really love an untied. Yeah, I was reading the really. Yeah. Interesting. It’s part of the like, what? Like I’m not obsessed with titles but I want you another. It’s another moment to another box of fill in on your application. Well, no, I do. I say it’s just I’d say it’s just part of the work.

Yeah. The piece of the work and it ought to be considered like Untitled. Feels like a bit. Like throwing it in the trash. Yeah. Wow. You did. Have you disagree. I yeah. There’s been point so I’m like, I’m not gonna try and title that actually. Feels like I’m done here. Mmm. Like I can’t I think if it doesn’t like come I mean I Mmm

Yeah I don’t know if it doesn’t like come within the kind of same at the same time as the poem or within the editing process of the poem then it feels too late. Then it feels like I’m trying to like do something else with what it already is or something. But I would say mostly I title and the title comes pretty quick with the poem, although what?

Yeah usually although recently I’ve been working Unlike its recent riding I’ve been doing has been. I’ve just been numbering, which is because I’ve been doing it in this like sequential. I’m writing for I was writing for 50 days every day this particular way and I just went with a number so that I didn’t ya. I don’t know if that numbers it helpful, but it was because of

the kind of the formula of the thing. Yeah. Sorry. Seth. You were you kind of last night? Did your first? No. More poetry event in Sydney. Yeah, right. Yeah. Let’s let’s let’s I’m into that but I want a little bit more explanation about no more poetry and like what? Yeah, what it sort of what it

does Dan? Yes. Can you explain to our listeners who the few of our listeners who don’t already follow? What no more. Poetry is. Yeah, yeah, it’s a press of, we mostly published poetry, some are writing some photography,

stuff. Some we do like mostly single author books and their most of these single author. The people who it’s their first book of poetry, cool. And then we do some magazine stuff, which means it comes with drawings and all kinds of things. We weren’t a newspaper. Every month, is that a physical

newspaper? Yeah. Cool. I got a yeah we do. I should have brought books for you. I’m cool. I that would have been really cool with me, but I said, okay, I will do that, but I was checking out online. You got a nice looking website. Yeah yeah. So I run it with I run it with Josh Edward, who does all the design cool?

Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, sometimes I’ve opinions, but like, as far as like design is concerned, it’s totally Josh. So Josh has like most of the design was the art direction for like newspaper and magazines itself. And I do all the editing. It’s just the two of us. I’m going for like two and a half years.

We just did yesterday last night was a 50th book. Yeah. Yeah. Launched in Sydney. Yeah, congratulations. Yeah. What is the name of that book? And it’s called learning at the Opera bar, by my friend, Jessica Rose PS and she’s an actor writer.

We’re going to play right now, which is cool. Hold, starfucker, I think, Hmm. I was having a look at it last night and it just when you were talking about your numbered poems, oh yeah. I haven’t read the whole thing, but I was flicking through and picking out some poems and it was like scenes, right? Yeah, yeah. Is the whole book like that? Like, yeah, I actually have a, I have my shitty copy here. Cool, I have got that numbered?

Yeah, yeah. Listen, could you it’s written. Yeah, it’s written. So he’s like 39 scenes, some of the poems, I guess it, I guess. It’s really, it’s like a hybrid. in the sense that like, where it’s both poetry, and also a script, That’s my shitty copy. Cool. Alright. It’s like the, what do they call

this? The proof. No that’s that’s the actual that’s the yeah. You’re saying. It’s because you like you’ve been fucking it up. Yeah. I’ve been fucking it up. All yelling at the upper bar and such a beautiful presentation does. Josh also do all the layout. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Josh does. Yeah, yeah. All the way. Shall I shall? I read like one or two is? Yeah, of course.

It’s very fun. It’s funny. Funny writing, just because really funny. Yeah, they could hear her for the first time. Read them last. Yeah. Cool scene. 29. Okay, should we should we go see one? And then we’ll skip ahead to 29 that we seen one seen one. I am funny. When I pretend to be a woman, I have my big break every day in

tiny shorts. 3:29 has a tight 11 2010 and out of titles. We’re gonna. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Cool. Yeah. Okay. Seen 29, famous my best friend and ironically, take selfies in circular key with the Harbour Bridge in the background.

We just saw the umbilical has fuck. Sorry, we just saw the umbilical Brothers live at the opera house. We both disagree with the concept of being somebody’s best friend because it feels juvenile. Even though we literally just saw Oh, the, uh, political Brothers live at the Opera House. A that could be us. One day. Be we be, we could tour the

world as a comedic double act. A, I really see it for us, B. Do you think you’ll be famous one day? A? I hope so, B, I’m going to drop the A and B now. Yeah, sometimes, I can’t sleep, because I know that in five years, I’ll be famous and I fear that I will miss. I will miss out on the important

things that make me smile, like being left. Left alone or shoplifting different types of luxury. Cheese’s, I try not to manifest Fame but I do manifest being great at something. Like I think my life’s work is to perfect a craft but that craft is always changing because I’m so easily distracted by passing phenomena and culture

and I guess the concept of celebrity It makes it harder when you are a multipotentialite and you have too many talents to choose from. I just pointed out myself. Yeah, welcome. I think my art stuff is when I try and make it a career. Well, then maybe you will have to be famous for having really pretty hair.

We should move to Will and go. We show love to flirt with the idea of going regional, but we would get so bored. You’re right. I’m going to try and be famous for doing absolutely nothing. How do you plan on doing that? There’s no plan. Just pure Miracles, the umbrella to the umbilical Brothers approach our table. Each time they speak. It is actually the other one

Speaking because they do that whole human ventriloquist stick all the time. Like, even when ordering a coffee? The umbilical brothers. Are truly insane. David, sorry, to interrupt Shane. Do you mind if we join you be pleased. A, we loved your show. David says really Beware. Yeah, we’re obsessed with you

guys. Shane, did you hear that David David, I can’t believe it. What Shane will? It’s just we are big fans of you ladies.

Hey, we’re gonna need you to be a bit more specific. David the way your the way you both run around town and your patent leather loafers and red or navy Brown Cardigans and the David and Shana interchanging lines here and sometimes a nice shade of lipstick on the way to the post office. The world is in love with you and every day.

We’ll see you in your mimicry is of old Hollywood actresses and knee-high socks at the art show or your most infamous performance, my personal favorite, when you run outside to take the bins out like it is a loo we go rail film and time stops. The umbilical Brothers.

Do a weird fake freeze frame in real time. We look at each other terrified. We look at the sea, gulls and feel Envy for how they are perceived at as just see girls. And we never expect them to be anything more. That’s lovely. That’s so he chose a hard one to

read like. That was a long. Yeah. Multiple characters. I was expecting a one-pager, put you in the life. But good. Really. I think that’s funky. Fuck it, we’re getting the whole poem on the yeah. Totally. Yeah, good luck. Hopefully, I can pull they can think about it. Yeah. You suppose sudden guys really fun and really yeah, like giving

the big kind of Sydney and totally like yeah, super conversational. Yeah. Like you know, feeling You like postmodern but you know it. I was, yeah, I was thinking sir, I don’t know the collection super deeply, but it does have that sense of like, to me, I’m looking at like, a Anna akhmatova collection.

And I want to ask you both about how you read poetry, like on like a personal level. But to me like, the most Shining Moment or like, the most powerful potent moments with poetry. I feel like I’m in the room with the person. Yeah, Godless of like, you know, even going back and Didn’t get like Emily Dickinson poem or a

Langston Hughes poem that moment where I’m like, shit it’s just me and the book but it’s like the person and I’ve had that I bring up akhmatova because I saw a portrait of hers a couple years ago and it was like the portrait that made me understand portrait painting like for a moment. I wasn’t looking at the painting but I was looking at akhmatova.

Like I was in the room with her. Yeah. Cool. And I just love that feeling of poetry. And I think this collection really has that sense of like You know that contemporary humanness like we could just all be at the pub together. Yeah, and it’s kind of got that like just comfort of like oh shit. Someone else is feeling these

you know, Sydney Australia local artistic. Yeah. You know, questions and that’s a really nice thing in a really cool thing about reading contemporary poetry because, you know, for a lot of people poetry contemporary poetry doesn’t exist. Yeah. But there’s still a lot of poetry readers, but they’re not often reading. I don’t think, Stuff published now.

Right? Like the bulk of read poetry is probably from the 20th century. Oh before? Yeah. I guess you got to be really into it to kind of follow it. Yeah. Like a way though, right? Like there’s a famous like video of fucking Frank O’Hara like playing to like a room of like

you know 200 kids and it’s like a gig like they’re laughing and they’re screaming and he’s a celebrity and yeah we put some audio in of that. The last time we brought it up. Yeah. Might drop that. And again because it’s It’s amazing to hear people reacting. So like there so sort of dialed into it. Yeah, yeah that’s it. They’re just, they’re so comfortable with the language of poetry.

And yeah, of course, the medium that it’s like, do you ever like lament that? I feel like I asked you this last time we hung out, but it’s like, is it ever painful to accept that? Like, I, it’s hard for me to accept that poetry isn’t, you know, it’s not like gigs or movies. It doesn’t have that same right? Because like what the like last like famous poet was maybe like

Allen Ginsberg or something. Yeah sure. And like I mean, unless you think about like, Ruby core, whatever like, yeah, but now it’s like, it’s kind of, for that. It’s like the wrestling. The Jiu-Jitsu I do. It’s like the only people that watch Jiu-Jitsu tournaments. Yeah. People that do Jiu Jitsu and that’s really where we’re at with poetry. Yeah. I mean yes or no. I feel like on a local in a

local sense like, our poetry event seemed like feel like gigs, especially, like in Melbourne. They feel like gigs and it kind of filled a hole of, like, people who wanted to share or like one or two. To listen to poetry. But like, I get the, I think the problem with poetry, in a contemporary sense, is that it’s very aligned with like University.

It’s a lot of the time and like the kinds of people who are writing books for like the the slightly bigger like poetry presses in Australia. For example a like so attached to institutions like their tutors and lecturers and like there’s a very particular way they ride and particular magazines, they put work into. So it’s kind of just detached

from like normal society. Like it’s an academic thing lately. Yeah so yeah so in that sense that yeah it I do meant that for sure like yeah yeah I think all breeds a certain kind of riding and interests just stays in its little chamber I think. Yeah. And I remember yeah that’s like it’s an awesome answer.

It’s kind of like that wasn’t enough poetry that I wanted. So I fucking made it. Like I hate it have. Yeah for sure I can do that. I mean yeah I left yeah I went after I studied psych I went back to Unity was like I’ll do some creative writing because I just craved And being around people and like hearing their ideas and I like, I love, I love

my work, being like torn to fucking shreds. I love that. And that’s why I went to back to you and I was like, okay, this is I’m going to like we’re sitting in a room, will be talking about the work and isn’t that just it just did not happen like that? Oh, really? Yeah, I mean, like, I was in, I was never enough. Like, mostly like people who write fiction and there were like, I like the most common

answer when we’d go around and like, do critiques on like, my work. For example, just be I don’t really read poetry but and it’s like you don’t just start with that. Like you read your human being and like you trying to see if that’s enough. Yeah that’s all just like please just tell me what you think. Yeah. Like don’t just do that and then say it’s good like that fucking sucks.

I had a bad. I did a bit of creative writing at. You said it was like the first. It was only originally opened two masters students, but in my last year of uni, they like undergrad kids do it as well. And was pretty underwhelming to like I studied under and I like poetry. Yeah, I like sorry. You’re pretty boring teacher, and I like called out like cold

out. You didn’t put the gun sound effect, uh, good poet, and poetry, and being a good artist and being good. Teacher, two completely separate skills for sure. No shame. Yeah. Yeah, your class was boring as fuck and everyone in the class. Just wanted to be a fucking English teacher. They didn’t care about art,

like, I was in a room of, I don’t know. They just want to like, look at that computers and like, because I was an undergrad, you know? So maybe it was Masters. Yeah, but everyone was kind of Like doing like I’m preparing for a job. Yeah. And I did like an experimental partment just got like crickets and I was like this sucks. I know you’re saying what were their poems like? There were like formal iambic

pentameter like undergrad. Students writing poems like like my pot. Like they were horrible. Yeah. All about bombs were horrible. Good. Yeah. See this like this is like you were talking dad about that sort of feeling of like because I felt that too. I think Sighs me. Yeah, let’s pick this apart line by line and I only ever had one teacher.

That was that hard on me and it was for a journalism subject, right? And that was fun, you know, like he would pick one person at random to have their we had to write a review every week and we would have our review on the projector like in large and he’d be like not, that’s wrong. No, no, that’s wrong. Yeah. You spell it, you know, stuff like that but it never

progressed beyond that sort of very like formal low-level stuff, right? And it just made me feel Like fuck. I would I would love to just do for a year just critique like group critique and stuff and I wonder if there’s if there’s any demand it, you know, for that just in in our lives, not in a university.

And and whether you have or whether you’ve thought about setting up, you know, something like a circle, like a writer’s. Oh yeah, my friend, my friend common common. See, because I so she runs a thing called, read the room which is exactly that. And I’ve gone along to someone. She does it. She does semesters of like Like 8 to 10 people cool everyone brings a piece of work four

weeks once a week you like just rock up. Yeah you read to people’s work each week. You sit there for two hours and you just took em, tear it apart and then right at the end they do a reading of it or it’s really sweet. Amazing. Yeah. In Melbourne it’s email when yeah. I don’t know how I like a lot of fun. She’s been doing it for quite a while. Yeah, she actually common. I’m publishing a book of that’s literally what I have right here

in a very loose way. Is, is Commons writing from the last three years? Amazing. Yeah. She’s cooler and it totally filled that hole because it was just like that. Yeah, right. Yeah, interesting. It could be way more. Widespread. I was chatting to some friends here, and they were like, we’ve,

I need the exact same thing. Yeah, we really do. Yeah. I mean, it’s funny. It seems to be something that writers are more interested in than anyone else for some reason. Like musicians tend to be too. I would say sorry to my musician friends. I’m guilty of this too, too prideful. Oh yeah. Let That kind of thing. It feels like yeah, sort of

losing some control or something, maybe I don’t. Fuck with the vision. Yeah I feel that. Hmm. Yeah I can relate to that. Hmm. Yeah. It does feel like Riders. I mean the thing with writing is like you once it’s done and then it’s out there. You don’t get a lot back. Yes. Which is a weird thing. Yeah, it’s just like gone. It’s the same with podcasting. Yeah, it’s just out there who

I’m talking about this a lot like this feeling of like recognition and ya know, get older and not it’s like yeah why? Thing about like School in the institution is, like, you’re constantly getting this recognition. Like, you’re so smart, this is so good. And then, as you get older and you kind of go into the workforce and all this fucking bullshit, this sense of like being recognized for the just

like yourself and the things you’re doing. I like there’s no more structures for that. Yeah. Even personally in my personal relationships I feel like we need to do it more. Like even I was like, I’m going down like a band camp. IPod route to like kind of reconnect with music. Yeah, it was like damn, I haven’t even listened to me. That’s like last record like properly time.

Like this needs to be on the iPod rotation. I’m doing like one album a week. Well I guess thank you say and I was like I really wanted like know this part of you and like recognize how cool the album was and my kind of sucks that we’re still like scared or we just default to like not doing that, not like really recognizing each other, especially in like a community of artists. I mean, it seems like you do it

quite a lot and you’ve definitely. Yeah, whole thing is a kind of project towards that fisher. I can see that you’re upset Pride about like I added this person. I published Passing. You got. Yeah. Like smile on your face and I mean, you do it too. When you like gets fucking record this album, this song was so cool. So that’s really important. But I think like, I definitely want to like intentionally kind

of do more of that good. So fucking important for, yeah. It is unity. And totally getting to know people. Yeah, heart of you. Yeah, yeah. Like yo, I want to read your work. Yeah. So are you like, are you writing and Publishing yourself? I mean we saw you read it first draft. Oh yeah yeah yeah it was. I mean I’ve published just two

of my own books through that’s why I started the Press was just to put my own book out, cool. And I couldn’t be fucked submitting it any more places? And I don’t know if I really liked a lot of the places I could submit it to ya. There’s something there is like, poets work, with some really bad

designers and shit is ugly, but I really can’t so much like about it. But like, it’s fucking ugly and like, like a lot of, a, lot of prices are ugly. I don’t know. Well, that’s part of Agreed making a sexy press is part of like, yeah. Poetry Revival. That needs to happen like, it needs to be cool. Yeah. Just needs to be cool. No One’s Gonna want to touch.

It’s already got such a bad old dusty musty rap. Like, yeah, we need you to make it fucking. Yes, you again, I think that’s the thing. It just, and it’s probably done that since forever. It’s just you keep making it cool and someone comes along and does something do. Yeah, I’m publishing myself. I’m always writing my own stuff. It feels like maybe my next book

that I’m working on currently I’m questioning. Knowing whether I want to publish it myself, I think. Because I mean the funny thing about publishing your own work is like it can be anything. I can do whatever I want. Ya know, like, I know, like I get edited in problem. Yeah, I get my get like people to edit it like poet friends like to look at it and like we Workshop it. But like at the end of the day, like I don’t need anyone’s

approval. Hmm. So just goes. Yeah. Looking exposed as a vanity press. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Everyone’s too scared because you’ve got too much clout. And yeah, you like My poem has no edit hahaha, the voice of my generation. I nailed this whole book. Wow. I like maybe you could like,

drop the all okay. No, not doing no. The jackets stays on during sex. Yeah. Funny say, but no edits. My actually the 50 pounds. I was telling you about, like the most recent thing I’ve written that I was no editing was the core of it.

That was the point. I don’t want to edit. I wrote on a typewriter. So I Couldn’t edit in yourself, you know. And yeah, no nothing’s changing. And it does that hold really changed the way I wrote which is approach to writing, right? Yeah. Because it was like, because I usually when I write like I really think like it’s usually kind of the spirt of writing, this idea, this image, what a person, whatever.

And then I kind of Let It generally and then I kind of just like let it sit for a bit and I come back and kind of shape it, but when I come back to shape it, it’s with the thought of how am I going to read this? It’s always about. How am I going to perform? Read it. It’s always that like, literally the sound. Yeah. Hmm. And it’s usually when I come,

what kind of come back to it, that I do that. But like, what I set myself, this challenge that, like, I don’t want to edit it. And and the typewriter seemed like the perfect tool because you, literally, like you can’t, it’s so annoying to edit other type, right? Yeah. And I was like, well, I’m fuck thats, why they doing that word and not read that word in the first? Exactly, yeah, yeah.

Comes more like a backspacing. I remember trying to write a poem on a typewriter when we lived in the warehouse. But I wanted it to like not have any mistakes. And I ended up just fucking like, rip it out. Start again. Rip it outside again. Yeah. Keep making a mistake like yeah, 20 characters. Yeah. That was my typewriter. Yeah. That was a sweet talker. Yeah. What do you think about like, those computer digital

typewriters the hemming? Right have? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don’t have to answer that I do ugly. Yeah. They’re kind of ugly but like I think they’ve kind of got a cool use. I like I kind of like it. I’m very much. I’m My like single use

technology kick and I have been on this case for ya, for decades. Great. And I’m really like, yeah. My friend gave me this iPod Nano and that’s so good. Like yeah, yeah. Beautiful just all it does is music. Yeah, and like I just simplifies very important because like the world is complicated and like the typewriter was like, I’m

like, I look was literally riding like not on a computer. No phone was in sight. Like it was actually, it was like, it’s kind of blissful, but also really challenging like my attention. Like it was such an exercise in my hand attention. Yeah, it’s like interesting because now we’re in this world of like free verse and yeah, you know we no longer tied most poets and no longer tied to like

metrical restriction or any restriction young form. And so then the typewriter becomes in a sense, your constraint. Yeah. Which I think is very important and I do, I’m often critic to have a constraint to have a constraint like, you know, y’all other art forms, but most of them and most of the stuff that I like music film are Has a constraint or has many

constraints. Yeah. And I think most artists agree that that constraint is not only useful but essential to producing good work. But yet the constraint opens it. Yes. Like yeah, you can write. I think it’s easier to write shit free-verse than it would be to write like a shits on it. Like, it’s so easy to get fresh ideas free verse because yeah,

there’s no. Yeah, there’s no. It’s Pro mode. Yeah to be riding like that for sure. Yeah, it’s interesting. Oh yeah, that’s like a he didn’t constraint the typewriter because the reader will not know that. Yeah, I feel like this part of those that, like, once you kind of get lost down the free verse thing, you realized like, I mean, I have and I think a lot of poets can kind of relate,

that the goal is to find your voice again, like your own voice and get it as close to like this particular kind of sound and you just keep honing hunting, keep running the same poem for the rest of your life, kind of thing. Yeah. And that yeah that becomes the Rhythm that in the media that you like stick to is like how you Chalk or how you write and it, you don’t know that straight

up when you’re writing, like, I don’t think metrical or non free basic. Do you ever read that or write? That might be my most recent, like interest. In that would be like tunker and like Haiku and stuff like that. Maybe my, but I’m mostly interested there in like, the brevity in the kind of like Simplicity. Mmm. Yeah, Yeah, Mmm.

But I mostly read free votes for sure. Hmm. The poems that most excite like I’ve got I wrote a couple poems I read that Like book-length epics. Mmm. Yeah, I forgot. He’s a really big Sydney part sacre-coeur. That was really beautiful, right? John kinsella. Oh yeah, really big. Kind of academic but like rats, lots of cool, like nature stuff. Yeah.

Usually the thing that you know the essential to me the thing that I love about a poem is its briefness and it’s yeah, it seems so perfect for like the Instagram page like it really does. So sure. Yeah, I could. Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s like it’s all there. Yeah. You have time to read a novel. You can fit it in this sort of square picture. Yeah.

Yeah, I’ll actually go back and say also Emily Dickinson as far as like some formal writing but also I’m yeah she’s also loose and so like a cheeseburger. An awesome. Yeah and we Dickinson feels yeah. Fresh. If I still got your little Emily Dickinson thing there. Yeah. Probably. That was literally my Bible for the typewriter poems. It was like yes that book and

like on the desk was just like that. And what else did I have? I’d Spinoza’s ethics close to books that. Yeah, that’s it. I mean, this stuff is stupid book on color healing because I guess the the the it’s the second of these kind of to like rituals or like riding exercise that I’ve done, which will be an

adventure book. I’ll do a third one, it’s like these 50-day things and the first one was like, I would I would go I would notice and I was doing like a covid kind of lockdown scenario and I would notice when I always go on, walks out, was pick lavender if I see it like jutting out of a fence. God, I could use that somehow. And so like when I go on my like daily walks for 50 days, I’ll be

like whenever like the right bit of lavender is sticking out of a defense like the right one, you know, like not just any kind of lavender, which is kind of what the poem is. It’s like such a metaphor for the poem. Yeah, I’d stop pluck it and then just like right there and then like on the street cool that’s the poem. So that was the first one then the second was this typewriter thing this thing. And so I was like, I have colds,

can I explore lavender, but not the actual thing. So, I had this like bottle of like essential oil of lavender that I would like half if I ever were 22. And then I was also like I found this color healing book on like someone’s like book box like on the side of the street over and I was like, okay let’s see what they say about like purples and

pinks in this cool in this book. And why did they say there? Was this one amazing part that was like the Violet promotes breast growth. I’m like, hell yeah, that’s it. Yeah, get me that violet light given. Yeah, save me and that sweet sweet violet light.

Yeah, I can’t remember what else if I can said there was like those. There’s a lot in the book and I kind of like, explored it just out of like, like they were stuff with like pendulums and like to working out like how like what color you need more in like your life. And like what you’re missing is I was like, I’m gonna try this out and just like, see how that feels.

Yeah I’ve actually, I’ve actually had a really lovely sort of year or so with with color and like looking at color recently and I got a job at this big photography. Dio and part of the job has been like painting. These big theater Flats like that are sort of on Wheels is basically a wall on Wheels. And, you know, once or twice a

week, some someone will come in for shoot and say, hey tomorrow, we’re going to need this painted like this exact color and don’t give us no help watch number. And so I just spent an hour like sanding this thing down and then like you know and it’s all very offline Vibes, it’s like no phone and funnily enough. It’s the most peaceful part of the job.

It’s like no distractions. No one asks you to Anything made paint and then you spent like an hour at painting this and maybe another coat, and you’re just looking at this one color, I love it, but it fills your field of vision you know, and it’s like, it’s so it’s very profound experience for me to have as a complete non painter and someone that pretty much exclusively shoots like black-and-white. Yeah, film.

Yeah. To have these like big walls of color. Just like, you know, me and this color just alone together for an hour or two. And then you kind of, you sort of feel like that sort of that funny like sort of. Of work like pride in your in your work, things seeing it you know in the studio all lit up the next day. Hell yeah.

It’s just it’s really like, it’s been really sort of beautiful re sensitization to color. Yeah, I don’t know if I’m going to start shooting color photography like more now but but just just to see it like that. I think it’s been really important for me. That’s really cool. I love that. I’m writing a poem at the moment for an artist friend Tony, just

he does like abstracts cool Isaac, American painter. Be lives in Berlin. Yeah, he’s obsessed with gold at the moment. And that’s what a lot of the work is, like, painting and gold. He’s making his own gold paint from like pigment and stuff who, and I guess he’s interested in it because like, usually in painting, like, gold is like, it’s the details.

Yeah. And he’s like, I’m just going to be the nation. Yeah. Right. As it look, as the bulk and like he does these huge. I’ll show you some pictures later, he carries our yeah, but huge is kind of abstract Blobs of like all one color. Color. Yeah, cool. And I just hearing someone talk about college and that just like you did just then it’s like you really can get lost in the fucking car.

Like there’s so much in it in its Simplicity is complexity as well. It’s like it’s fucking awesome. I really wish to read. Derek jarman’s chroma, that’s his book on color. Is that one of those like sort of color theory, books, kind of thing. I guess. It’s pretty loose and poetic okay. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds that sounds great and yeah.

On the list you’ll have lists for like stuff. You need a read or whatever. Yeah and I’ve got this long note that I keep up, which is movies that people recommend to me. Yeah. But pop pretty much a softly. Yeah. And I do I have actually started slowly going through it and it’s been really fun like just you

know, trying to keep abreast of like because I decided at the beginning of this year that I want to write a movie. Even if it’s just the script I want to write, you know, something that also it could be shot, you know, feasibly Good. And yeah. So I should have started watching movies at the beginning of 2023 with like, okay. How would I like this? How would I do that scene?

And like it just so happens that I’m working in lighting and like, I’m getting all this like, you know, sort of practical onset knowledge at the same time. So it all feels very like, it’s that funny like, you know, once you do a film Theory class, yeah, you can never see films the same, but it’s like totally an additional because I did that class, and now I’m doing the like film lighting class, but

just, you know, it’s like an internship or something. Like, I mean, I get paid for it. So, yeah, it’s like this funny way of watching films where you were like you staring at it like yeah, pause. Okay, pause. How do they like that? Yeah. Yeah. Like going off to Aiden about this one like shot. Reverse shot from Lord of the Rings that they like little like a non-continuous way which I was

like mind blown. That’s cool. Yeah, I film film. Make a friend of mine said, almost the exact same thing to me the other day it was like I because he’s been lost in like doing that color correcting stuff for landfill and he’s like, I say now, I like look at films and I’m It’s just I know what happened to it. Yeah. I know some labor that’s gone into their it’s just all my jobs or sting to look at it. - yeah

like that. It was oh my God this color grading stuff is so deep. It’s so hard and like I love it. I shot a video video clip for a friend. Shout out Glenn, Glenn 20. And yeah, I spent like the most time of the whole project aside from know, I think the most

hours I spent on the project was just color grading it at the end, you know? Yeah, I think a lot of It is probably due to my inexperience and like making Corrections rather than like, right. Yeah, it’s meant so, you know, yeah. But yeah, it’s a very interesting thing. It was like, this whole other world that I was kind of only Vaguely Familiar with. Yeah, it seems laborious and like time consuming, regardless

of experience was like, yeah? Really. Yeah. It also, you know, I bumped into a friend who does, she’s like an editor for like a big Australian TV show. And she said that some of the greatest get paid like, 9,000 dollars a session, which is like one days Back, nine grand, gee, send it back all we go to recut it, like I don’t like that. Look on the characters eyes.

Okay, cut a new scene, send it back to the greater 9 Grand. Boom. Okay, so we all need to be doing that. Yeah, so that’s why I’m thinking like, okay, let’s get the same color calibrated. Let’s stop watching YouTube videos. If one of us just get absolutely minted, I don’t know what’s gonna happen to us. We’re so used to being broken out. Yeah, yeah, I know it’s going to be a problem. I know.

Yeah, it’ll tear it apart. I just quit my job as well, so now I’m properly. Yeah, true. I was waiting. Yeah, I was hoping for that like I my career would start taking off before you quit your job. So there could be some bread winner with families died when in a group. Yeah. Yeah. This is my first. I should be at work right now dancers.

Good time. It’s my first Monday of true. Yeah. This is actually a really huge hate it. Yeah. It’s a big day for me. I was walking out. Like, I just felt so unencumbered. I was walking past all the suits. Yeah, yeah. Fuck AB squared so I shit that’s awesome. I love that for. Yeah. There was one thread that I wanted to touch. On is, I was reading a book.

I can’t remember who it was, but it was like talking about, like, the quote air quotes death of poetry and placing it in relationship with, like, hip-hop and rap. And being like, that’s where poetry lives. Now, I’ll show in a sense because like, I mean, it still has rhyme. I still has. Yeah, it really does. Like, you can really it’s an

easy line to draw from. Yep. You know, written, poetry is piqued. Yeah. When it was still, you know, 60 70 s to now where, you know, show, Hip-hop is, you know, those genre and is yeah is just growing and growing and growing and and local hip-hop Lakers. Finding my first gig was actually Bliss n Eso in beans like yeah.

And then I came back to when I came back to Sydney from London. Matt was wearing like a slim set shirt chat out, slim set. And that is was a really cool moment for me. I fucking Rave about these guys all the time but just to see where like Australian hip-hop has landed like it’s just gone from such a like you know, Kind of boring Place.

Yeah, I had its moment or whatever. To now it just feels like it’s flourishing. And I’m listening to Red Brick Gothic by buying the bushranger, and it’s so experimental. But also, so rooted in like, you know, hip-hop and place and Sydney, but it’s kind of backed, I think the got industrial sort of noise group called bract and

they did the music cool with buying and it’s kind of like, really coarse kind of simple delivery, but I was like, damn, like, yeah, poet. This is, poetry is really Living here in the sense that like, yeah, you know, my favorite poetic lines that I’ve read over and over, they just sit with me like that deep in my brain. Those come to me sometimes and

now that place is kind of partially taken up by by hip-hop. But yeah, I would say to me, it feels like rather than like, death approach. You like, hip-hop is closer to poetry than like published poetry. I think like they’re at a point like, in history, like, poetry was song Like There’s no distinction there and like rhymes of the function of

memory, like, and And, you know, like that, that was that’s the function almost song and like the second like printing presses, became these like private things where people could own poetry. Then we see like the moving into like concrete poetry and like free verse and everything shifted and moved away from like air quotes.

Poetry, like, if anything hip hop, is more poetry than like a lot of contemporary published. Poetry, I would say it. Yeah, right. Yeah, I went to the t.s. Eliot poetry prize in the UK and It was really cool that was like at the South Bank Centre and there’s like maybe a thousand like an award ceremony thing or are they reading now, what’s

going reading so is right is about eight poets, which is like the final shortlist and there’s like some prize the grand. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Grand Final Victory. But it was really exciting because it’s like, you know, big institution Southbank Centre literally on the bank of the River Thames. And maybe like a, it was the closest I’ve been. So thanks a bit like, hearted up

carriageworks. Yes, exactly. It’s actually got a place which is really beautiful. If you ever go to London know, if you get the chance to it’s got the Poetry Library. I should have gone. As I recently went, we did book launch their eyes, but it was so in and out, oh, yeah, I think I saw that on line that was at barely Fisher, right? Yeah. Which is like a very cool book, shop in dalston down and very

cute. Very very cute, they’re adorable. Yeah, shout out. Shout out, yeah. Well, she’s very, very supportive, very quick but it was really cool. I’m one of the poets have forgotten their name but they did a kind of like this melody and a few poets that I like London poets, coyote And Connie does this kind of, you know,

blending of hip-hop and you know published traditional poetry. But there was this moment, I don’t know if you’re familiar with it but it was at Glastonbury and it was AJ, Tracey singing. And he brings on this little like this young white kid. He’s maybe like 18 to rap with him to wrap. It’s a Dave and the kid.

What’s his name? Alex from Gloucester. He raps AJ Tracy’s part right. And the track is Thiago Silva, who’s like famous football player and there’s this big Silver chant. And all of Glastonbury is like wrapping well, this Thiago Silva moment and this poet got the audience of the Southbank Centre all these, like, poets to do that part to chant like wow, Iago, silver and cool.

Wow. Like we’ve really activated like hip-hop in this quite traditional. Poetry space, that’s good. Dad like there are there’s it goes both ways. Now, where you have like a rap, as a continuation of, you know, the original poetry and then also now poets that are heavily, informed, by wrap, blending them both, It was I fucking love that moment.

Like I was like, I did not think we were going to be chatting fucking Thiago Silva here at the. Yeah, that’s also a treat. Yeah, but it was perfect. It’s whatever. And craves going to these things, right? Like they want that like they want to try and send a little bit and like yeah, what once if we don’t want to feel like they’re at University exact? Yeah, yeah, yeah I can whatever the opposite of that is.

That’s what we’re doing, you know? I do there are like yeah there are moments like I thought those poets they were really doing some cool stuff, like there is an offshoot of that more like academic. Like traditional publish poetry, that really is doing stuff that I think is powerful and potent and like moving the language forward and we can’t have both like we can have the kind of

Auntie post poetry like, fuck the universe hug stuff but I do find like when I pick up a journal like over land or whatever that are more traditional like edited by Toby Fitch like yeah there are moments there that I still think are very important you know like for sure poetically. Yeah, Mmm. Yeah I mean they publish a whole range of things you know. That’s the funny thing about a

poll. Like if you don’t know the poet like reading poems, like it’s funny how they can be so context-dependent. And then also not like strangers are reading, you know, like I think about that, like strangers pick up my book and they will have a totally different understanding of, like, what the fuck’s going on? Yeah, it’s such a strange thing about poetry because I’ve got

that kind of looseness. Yeah. And that abstractness, that like that. But also heaps of specificity, like, how you speak to any poet and like, there are things hidden in there that are like almost just Like yeah, damn me, you know and like and then but that gets translated in a totally different way. Yeah, it’s such a funny thing. It is the poet’s job or any artist job like at least in my understanding to make sure that

we’re not falling into like a diary stick mode. Oh, I think obviously, you saw earlier, you’re like everyone should write, not everyone should publish. And that’s because, like, a bad poem to me is essentially or one Verge the most common version of a bad poem, is a diary entry I be done about that? All reader in mind, I think about something called it. Makes me mad.

Yeah. I’m like you just published this because you wanted to publish something, if you want to be an artist, sorry you have to do the work of self-criticism, not just self-criticism, but this has to extend beyond just you and your mates. Yes. Well, it doesn’t have to but no totally in my idea, my like, Aesthetics or something. Yeah. Right. Painting.

Or any form of art? Like, for sure, it depends on the audience, I’m sure. Conceptually doesn’t have to but you know, I agree, I think that’s like, yeah, that’s one element like, you know, That diary stick style. Like, I mean, I write I write about myself very like, Very

openly and very like clearly, but I think poetry has to do, it can’t just be that because then it’s not good, poetry 100%. I mean, I read a lot of poetry because I, we get a lot of submissions for things and, and God, now that feels like I’m gonna like insult people, but I mean, I mean, there is like there’s poetry that. No, I mean, actually, you know,

it’s critical. It’s like, they’re like, it can’t just be that because like, why should I read it? Why should I read about? Like you have to like, we all felt heartbreak. Yeah, yeah. Like What is it about this specific heartbreak? That is like, is something for me as a reader. Like what are you telling me, what else you telling me, what

else he doing with the language? What else? Like it just can’t just be? It’s a good angle to start from and I think everyone should do it. I think it’s an awesome way to. Like it’s cathartic. It’s like it’s good for processing reflecting. The world like perspective. Shifts. Like it’s in. It’s important. Like practice. Like private practice. Yeah. But it’s like if you want to make it public because just publishing.

Yeah. Then like why you doing it? Exactly. It’s like other take on that. Life of its own like almost like remote control imagery that again poet has over my brain you know like an aqua table is a great example of that she’s just like putting these completely new scary images into your head. And it’s just like, yeah, this

has to be published, you know? Like yeah, totally. Oh, really? Yeah. Fortunately poetry, I think is one of the forms most easily susceptible to that to being bad simply because there’s no barrier of Entry. Like yeah, I To do a painting. I at least need to, like, buy the paint. And like, and I need to like hot learnt it, like, either paint?

Yeah, instrument. I need to learn like, you know, you don’t have to learn all the way, but there’s some degree of the obstacles. Even a short story. Hmm, But the poem, yes, probably the, I can’t really think of a form. That’s more easily. Like I could write apart. We go write a poem, maybe photography. Yeah, photography pretty low, barrier of Entry to, yeah, but out, but people need a camera

like poetry. He don’t think you’ve got it. You’ve got everyone has been given at Roberta’s camera. No, you’re so right? Yeah, absolutely now. Yeah, it’s still different because the artistic the sense of like a lot, everyone takes photos, but I think the vast majority of people don’t consider not like those. They’re not saying this is photography.

Yeah. Just saying. Yeah. Taking a snap and got to it’s a different thing. It’s technically photography but when I make sure poem I’m saying like I am a poet and yeah Fahrenheit like even my heart so maybe maybe you’re kind of right that it’s like when you have a camera you’re like this is photography. But when you take a A photo on your phone. You have to be.

You have to say to someone or to yourself. I’m making a photograph now, rather than just, like, I’m using one of the functions on my own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Should we take five? Yeah, let’s take five. We’ve been going for an hour. Oh wow. Okay, this dissolves, okay cool. Take five. See you guys later. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Did you have a problem with that about a year ago? We were like, we had like, a seamstress on the show and I, we’ve been relying on who can wear T ends. Yeah. Like, who has the right to wear them? And now, it’s like gotten to a point where it’s like Mom’s doing the school pick up a wearing T ends with like a

rather nice dress and I was at like a late-night Burger. Fucking truck the other day and other people eating were like two Lads like classic style, like, pretty scary. And I saw like the blue and white tea and they were actually like, scary as they originally were like, yeah, I was like,

I’ll shit like, I’m kind of here and it’s late, and it’s just me, and I’ve just worked out and I feel a little bit intimidated, but you and I was like, cool. Like that’s kind of, that was their original feeling. That was our original presence. Yes. Yes. So, it’s just that discussion of like, I guess I guess I dude answer your question plainly. Yes I do have a problem with

like appropriating tiens. It’s kind of annoying. Very interesting. Yeah. Okay yeah we don’t have a like to take. Yeah it’s like that. That is so tied to a culture where they were literally like a symbol of like fuck like this person is you know, a little bit scary. Like it’s part of a culture and then just to wear them and to

change their meaning so much. Like yeah, that feels to me like the definition of appropriation. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. I look, I think like things do.

Sorry. I keep fucking disconnecting here. Words pieces of clothing. Pictures sounds like they. They’re not ever just purely localized. And the border is never so hard that either you’re in or you’re out. Yeah, you know, like, like, like, we all use slang that,

like, our sort of respective cultures, never really came up with and, like, you know, things things melt and like, we are, we’re a culture not these like separate enclaves at the end of the day. Yeah. I mean it’s feels like it’s just a data to analog for gentrification and I’m sure you’ve all heard that we had

clothes that we wore. Like I had like mayhaws and standard like you can’t wear very like you don’t want to wear that house anymore. Not to be a dick head about it. Yeah they don’t mean what they meant. Yeah. And right, I like it’s you know, fashion is always in conversation with like the world and like I’m like, okay I can’t I can’t wear those anymore

because they don’t speak of me. Yeah, yeah yeah. I accidentally wore like a FUBU hat and I didn’t know what it stood for because I found it an optional like something stands for us by us. And it’s like this like like African-American like label and right. And like it’s very much for like it but yeah. Four out of five. Yeah.

It’s very obvious but very not to not to meet you had some cool. The answer it was the fucking awesome hat but you know now it just sits there. Yeah looks at me I think I get what you’re saying but I do think it’s important to have a sensitivity like yeah, I think that’s cool. To the extreme, I think. Yeah. Bit fucking like entitled like,

yeah. Okay, yeah, I’m sorry too.

He’s a shit, dude. I mean, so, we’re back if you could until we’re back on. The the point though is like that. Yeah, came from somewhere else to be there, too. Yeah, look, I’m not going to that is true. Yeah, well you and your like T ends in. There would be that should wrestle about it. We actually could do that as one of the activities for me wrestle. I wouldn’t impose it on you. Like, if you were in tears, I’d

be like, let’s I saw and said, no, I’d be like, okay, yeah, push the point. Yeah, I feel comfortable. Throwing, I have a pair of jeans in my closet, but I don’t wear them. That’s true. Like I actually, I don’t know. Because I, I’ve tried. Yeah, yeah, yup, yeah. They’re comfortable shoes. Let me tell you, I think you could make them work.

I think you could look like a heel to me. Like they are. There are like, a are puffy. Go to the back. Yeah. Like a like a healed kind of cute the on there. Yeah, I just it doesn’t. They don’t really work for me. I’m not that on loud. Yeah, I don’t think huh. Hmm. Pretty subtle at the moment. Yeah. You’re wearing linen?

Yeah. Let’s do it. Let’s do a quick crinkle. Crinkle. Got the dirty linen. We’ve got a blue and red socks, which one? Which as far as Odd. Socks go. Lovely combination. Thank you. I’m spitting linen. Yeah, it’s nice. Yeah. And then the classic, I Love. NY t shirt? Yeah. And what’s your hat. My hat is my brother’s band sex cop.

Cool. Yeah. Yeah, it’s not sex couple. Here. Yeah. It’s like a kind of a Truck. Yeah, to truck. Yeah, nice. A nice Brown. Yeah, so glad a good Brown. I’m so glad they came back for sure. Yeah. Yeah. There were dearly missed, I think by there was a hole in our popular culture does it. They’re also like I think

they’re one of those like fashion items that are just as bad as they are good. Yeah. Like you can see her in a ditch slightly different context and it’s like oh, that’s bad. Yeah. And that’s yucky likes likes to. Yeah. All like, you know, even just like food like to cool and Hi P off. Yes, that is a yeah, they get a bit. Yeah, a bit know.

Yeah. But I like that about it because it’s like this Universal kind of like most caps. I like the cap. Yeah. It’s like these tribes very specific design of how? Yeah. Yeah, totally. It could be appropriation. I don’t know what the I don’t know how the truck is really broken culture and any time we

go anywhere. We’re all just like literally salivating over all. The trucks were like calling them big rigs and we’re like Really into the truck culture stuff. So I feel like an affinity especially in Australia going to drive so far to go on tour anyway. Yeah, yeah, I spent a lot of time on the road with the big rigs. So yeah, we’re really feeling that right now, in the band, I

like shot a whole wide world. My dad on my dad is like big tradie Ozzy bloke and like our hats can now touch. Yeah. I can borrow his hat. Sure. Yeah. That’s true. All right, yeah. Thanks Dad. Yeah.

All right. Let’s go. Let’s get into one of our pre planned activities. I love it. It is. So, this is like this, this has been going on for a while online, probably, since there has been an internet. I noticed like Brad schimel sharing some really cool internet artists like Cory, Arcangel and like some other

really cool stuff. Obviously, what’s his name, John rathman, who’s fucking Google Street View stuff. By the way, I’ve never seen anyone equal ever seen this stuff. Rothman’s, Google Street View. Explain it to me again. So it’s basically like you’re pretending to be a photographer in Google Street View and

everyone that has an internet connection is kind of thought of this and tried it before. But I just think that John rothman’s done it the best, I’ve never seen a better example of it. Just I think the amount of time research time, he spent definitely in the program, you know? And then the amount of like walking around doing air quotes that you have to do to find

these scenes that he finds is just, I mean, I don’t know how long you spend. To do that. Yeah, I love that. But as alongside that very sort of like a sincerely, cool. I’d like Cutting Edge challenging art. Is this like, what would you call? I’ve my, I’ve got a note, an

iPhone note called Etsy art, and but I don’t think Etsy is the right word for it. It’s kind of like popular viral viral art, you know, that’s kind of coming up on, on Instagram. And I think the point is just, you know, the point is to some extent, this kind of Secretly commercial may be overtly commercial thing. Like I’m going to make art my

job and by any means necessary, you know, I’m going to make an income from it. Yeah, so that’s the vibe. I’m getting from some of these Pages I’d like to see. I think I need example. Okay. Yeah. So so here’s the first one. This one this account is called Sunday dot. Nobody dot art. And the profile picture. Is this like sense it out eyeballs?

Okay, so let’s see. All right, let’s look into, let’s look into one of these things. So like, okay, what’s Happening Here? Can you guys see okay? Yeah, yep, yeah. So so that’s like the artist has chosen to depict Bob, Ross, famous very internet e. Like you know reference out of

samples of paint swatches. Yeah. This made me like grown so hard when I saw it. I was like, oh the sitting in front of it, frustrates me to? Yeah, fuck, I mean, yes, it’s scale as well. Yeah, would have taken awhile Studio walls. Sighs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This is probably this, this guy’s full time. Let’s do another one.

Oh my God. This one’s so annoying. No, no, no. So they’ve got the neon sign which is a huge already. A big black mark, it’s just checking whether thing. Froze. Here’s the fucking, oh my God, this one’s just gonna be really frustrating. I’m afraid.

Okay. No. What’s happening? It. Oh so many references to see. Yeah it’s so obvious. Yeah. Oh oh oh.

Oh my. We’re all speechless. It’s all right. Let’s fast. Yeah. Tick-Tock energy like that? Yeah. The bag like fast cars. Like this, like the word is like satisfaction. Yeah. Assessed with that on Tick-Tock

very true but it’s so like medium is the message. Like it’s so yeah. Shaped by like The Tick-Tock and the real, the presentation of it does. This doesn’t need to exist in person. This work, right? No. Not really to see it. Can ya on? I mean, I think like the I think the idea was that this Bean box

was in an actual place that people had to find, you know. So it’s like, yeah, it’s like people talking about geocaching geocache right, okay, it’s yeah, it’s, yeah, you’re right. It is just, it seems very much. I mean, that maybe it’s also made for this the Geocaching in interest as well, but like it is

very much made for this particular kind of social media. Hmm which is like I don’t know if that’s the parameter you want to set. We’re talking about parameters before, it’s like that, that one seems like yeah we be nice not to just be in that parameter of social media. It’s going on here. Yeah, okay, so this one.

Yeah, I don’t know. I think this is oh, he’s hidden 788 dollars. Worth of like gift cards for a fast food joint in the frame. Chili’s, this is we don’t have time for the first time on holiday and I saw I went to Moco which is like a trick Gallery almost like in their marketing.

They’re like like that was the billed as the Contemporary Art Gallery for. Amsterdam. I thought it was like an MCA or whatever. I would see like the local artists and they had in their marketing. They were like Basquiat Herring Warhol. Like, you know, these huge names and you go in and there’s actually one painting by like

each of those people and there’s like some banksy’s, but the rest of the gallery and his fucking expensive, it was like 40 bucks. You had to have a time yet, have a timed entry slot. It was fucking Rabbi was so busy like it was this beautifully successful capitalist venture. Yeah. And the work was all this core. Like.

Yeah. And I would call it like yeah, really shitty pop. Ah, yeah. Yeah. Kind of sole function is to make money and be photograph. It’s like like it’s just a really like vapid kind of type of art. Yes. Like it’s kind of like post was that fucking movie exit through the gift shop?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whole kind of spectacle was like, I can kind of make a successful art, like, Like, I don’t know gesture and I can it was almost more like men, but I guess this is like a trigger. For that was part of pop art thing, like sure. Intertwined, with yes, Commerce, and.

Yeah. And marketing in total, if you zoom out and like, we’re not looking at the painting or the profile, but we like zoom out then it kind of does this war holy and like, it’s still doing that. Yeah, same tree. Yes, kind of but only Warhol gets to laugh in this. In this iteration of it that we’re looking at luckiest. Like the comment is also having

On going off. Dre is I’m going to sample some of the comments thousand followers like yeah. Yeah it is the same trick. I think that’s what’s like so like this. That’s the size of it all. Yeah, yeah. Yeah it’s underwhelming and yet to for it to be too like for it to be art that is like to

photograph it. I don’t know like that, certainly not a motivation for like art that I would ever really have, you know? Like yeah. Yeah, it’s to witness it. Is that there? That’s enough. Yes. And that’s the most. Yeah, it’s like a reference that I’m gonna come back to like I took a 4. There was a one beautiful Keith Haring work there that was just

like right a painting of a like this kind of what you call that like a landline like a. Yeah yeah yeah. And we just that in black with these kind of like comic book style action lines coming off it. Cool and that was a beautiful thing and it made me think of like the history of the phone, the phone in my pocket and I

took a photo. But the photo for me, it’s never like I don’t post anything, I don’t have Instagram but the photo for me is to remember the feeling oh, for sure, for sure, in a year’s time. Yes, I’m hype that I got to see you hearing. And in person, when I say vote for Photograph, it’s like the photograph and then yeah. Did it put on here? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. This one’s interesting that. Yeah, this one’s his entombing. A bag of Cheetos in like a big sucker. Actually kind of like this one to be to be. - it’s like yeah it’s like a time capsule kind of thing but huge dedication to the time element like yeah it’s like

isolated from vibrations and like how thick is that concrete? You know like four inches thick and like he’s like lying on top of it and like hey yeah there’s the Cheetos. Great bag entombed. Yeah, Cheetos.

You see? This one has enough of that art gesture like That kind of, we were talking a couple of weeks ago about that just happens out in nature. You know, that an artist will do on the side of a river bank. And like, yeah, the documentation is kind of what survives of it, but the actual essence of the artwork is kind

of gone like a tree falling in the woods kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Let’s go to another artist. That what is it? Let’s think about it. Because like that, for example like and I agree with you think though that one was kind of like interesting. Yeah, I think because it had related to this like whole operation. Yeah. Yeah. Of like actually putting it somewhere in the world.

Yeah. Like why are you doing that? Yeah, brings questions. But like what is the equal part of this particular work of this kind of work of this kind of work? I think it’s that sort of that over evident what’s the word like, alignment or sort of the

over evident like sort of proximity to this world of hype and more. You’re online and social and that’s a scary new way of socializing that just to me seems like flawed the route. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Is there something to the scale of it? Because like it seems like we’re all like working toward like

earlier you asked like you guys have like lists of can’t like films and music and I’m trying to get like as far away from that as possible. I’m trying to like hyperlocal eyes because I’m just scared. I feel like my like the meaning has been lost with all this like the extreme And I know it’s it’s been said and been said and been said, but I’m like, the next

record. It’s going to like the next album. I listen to all the next book I read like it’s going to like someone will have told me about it, or, you know, I read it in like, like, I don’t know FBI or, you know, in a from a fucking music review, like it’s the opposite of scale. I do also feel like a certain sense of snob Enos like, for me, like, I want to speak for you

that you’re entitled to a little sign. I’ll be there in a sense here, where it’s like this is just dumb. Like this is dumb and yeah. You wouldn’t like, you know, out there we go. To like, there’s a thousand followers like yeah. 200,000, I think yeah, always has been a little bit of that. Right? Like yeah, respective shows like yeah. Yeah. I think, I think. Yeah.

And like art is like inherently social. And I think that’s why I like local, like I guess what? You have like, an affinity with like local art. It’s like, because it’s like, also wrapped up in this like social world. And I think the social part of this is what yuck. Yeah. Like, it’s like that, right? I feel detached from it, but it’s also trying to Make me feel not detach from it.

Like like I’m there with them with them and makes me feel yuck. That’s not how I want to be social, and I guess I can select social element of art. Just dissolves into this. Like, yeah. This stuff is exploiting my like psychology in a way that that application. Instagram itself does, which

just feels wrong to me. Yeah. All right, let’s check out art 21. I think this one’s more of a like it’s a bit more. It’s proposing to be more about Artists right now talk about their work. I don’t know why I wrote this one down, let’s just see what’s going on here. Yeah, and this is the ick in this one is obvious.

This is coming from like fucking a corporate. It just stinks of like corporate institutions. Oh, he’s getting paid. A huge fee to do is every reference to the way. This has been put together. Feels like it was created by a body like, yeah, yeah, yeah, fucking snake oil. Right. Right, right. Yeah.

Even though they’re my heart. Gender by they genuinely the like, aside from the presentation I’m sure there were moments of come. You sure? Like, it looks like the people. It’s totally the people on that bean hunt, definitely felt something really real as well. Like sure. Yeah, yeah. That’s that’s doing the bean hunt for sure. Yeah it’s actually kind of cool but we were watching you to be.

No I would not do the bean. I would like an Escape Route. Feels like This is really not work. You that being huh? Find those beans. I’m gonna eat them and I’m not going to share them for.

I have the beer all my baby, Finders Keepers, okay enough r21 this one’s yeah. This one’s just like very obviously boring. It’s like, it’s like, it’s like, you know, someone’s like well-meaning, parent might be like like my kids into art. Well, there’s capture note be

right up there to the right. Right down, down down. Yeah in the glasses and she is what she got to say. It’s a poet. Yeah. Right. As Eileen Mi good part. It’s catching. Every does a lot of orthophotos for sure portraits. Hmm.

Yeah. So this is she does if you’ve seen any of her work like it, she did those like, she’s famous like kind of scholar Asian like scarred, body kind of write off.

You look her up in it all? Yeah, all right. I quite like Bunch of a photography. Yeah. Web that. Oh yeah, platform awesome. Yeah, yeah. Document, heck, yeah. And like this, got like what you say about this girl? Friends work? Is like, yeah, yeah, it’s just like, queer, portraiture, I guess. Yeah. That, I think that also speaks to like an audience desire to

understand. Yes, like, yeah, that. What’s like, you know, something just seeing the image? Yes. Is sometimes more challenging for like a more mainstream audience? Yeah, there’s a safety. It’s like the wall text. Yeah, it’s like give me. Some background like what’s going on in your head? Like I don’t get this kind of thing which I can’t hate like that and I guess like, if you

were an artist, like some of that process stuff is interesting, right? Yeah. I’m talking about you, I can’t get in it but I just I want there to be like you were talking about being in a creative writing class. Yeah. And your fellow students kind of saying there were sort of saying to but I don’t understand with that saying what does it mean?

Yeah, as if like the meaning of something is the hole Substance of it, you know, like when people are like the goal, I love that movie. It looks so beautiful. The soundtrack was amazing. I really felt all these emotions. But what did the ending mean? I’m going to Google that and it’s like, why does the ending meaning something like that resolution at the end, you know,

especially in this like, fucking scary postmodern, like nothing means anything world? Yeah, we’re completely happy. Watching a six second video that has no context and literally no meaning, but then when it goes to, when we go to a movie, it’s like, oh, I need to know what it means or like one of That ending of the book mean, you know. Yeah. And that, that that sort of, what would you call it?

An obsession, a desire that instinct feels very, it feels almost like anti-intellectual to me. It’s like, you know, this obsession with like nailing something down into a sort of a solidity that I don’t think any work is like, that’s not, that’s not the sort of purview of art.

Like, I need that. Yeah, that’s a really tough one though because I do think getting comfortable with that. Like I feel like We have done a lot of work to get that Comfort. Like like, what do you mean? Yeah. Like work in the sense of like not, maybe it’s not so

transparent but like we’ve been listening and seeing and making challenging stuff for a decade. And it’s a very, it’s all it’s, like, breathing, pretty comfortable with. I don’t care, I don’t need to know what this means. It’s so easy to walk into a gallery. It’s so easy to listen to really hard music. Yeah. Because like, we’ve been,

Hissing, it a listener for a decade. Yeah. And it is hard. Like, I agree with you, like, for people that are artists or people that are like serious about it. Yeah. You can be mad at them for asking those questions but if someone is not there, they haven’t spent fucking thousands of hours. Ten. Thousands of hours? Yeah. He’s being so comfortable with

the slipperiness of meaning like yeah. You know, but does it take thousands and thousands of hours? Yeah, I don’t know. But you’re asking like a more mainstream. More casual audience. Typical get seems like it. There must be something there because it is the first I see pain. I see like discomfort when

people like you said, go to the MCA, go to a big gallery of Contemporary Art. And it looks like discomfort, you know, sometimes I think it also like it. Yeah, it’s this discomfort. And also like this people feel like if they don’t understand it, it’s like a shame. It’s like not understanding. Yeah, Toad. And it’s like, oh that’s you’re already.

You’re already shooting yourself in the foot. Yeah, like, I You know, just as much as us though. Yeah. Like or anyone? That’s and like, that’s it. Yeah, I don’t have some soup and social knowledge. Yeah, no special knowledge, chill attitude towards it could like Frank. I watch that. Yeah. Yeah. For everyone. I want ya movie the light house last night.

Have you guys seen alive? Not seen it. No, so no spoilers but the whole well cue the premise. It’s like this young man is sent to work on a remote Lighthouse Island and he’s stuck. The lighthouse with this Willem Dafoe, Willem Dafoe who was great and I thought it was fantastic lighting’s great, the soundtracks scary and awesome,

it looks great. It’s put together beautifully. The script is fantastic, but I don’t know if this was some producer that made them do this the sort of overarching, what would you call it? Like that. Sort of plot archetype thing. It’s like that Promethean story where it’s like, Prometheus like what did he do? He he was given fire or he stole fire from a God and then like

like it’s kind of like the Adam and Eve like apple story like to punish Prometheus for, you know, showing this like scary new technology to humans in the in the myth of Prometheus is like top punished forever, right? So his his liver is eaten out by

like a wild Falcon and then every day, it grows back and then, it’s eating out again. Oh no. And they used that exact image and the end of the film to say, like good, its Furious like. But the funny thing is, that like all of the big sort of emotional beats in the story said, enough of that. On like, a brainstem level to

me, we’re just getting the reference. At the end was just like. Yeah. Ok. Cool. It’s like you said a brand. It’s like, it was that well of like reference, you know? Yeah. And it just felt like it was again that thing were for someone to look it up to Google, what does that mean? And it’s like, oh, that’s what it is. And it kind of gives you that like, little spark of, like recognition, or like now. I now I get it.

Yeah, whereas like, without that, That little shot at the end which like, I didn’t hate it that much but like, without that shot at the end, it would have been just as strong a movie, you know, they could have used some other way to come out of that like story, huge film, Dad, sorry. But like yeah, like, when we started this podcast, we kind of had a bit of a, like Original season. One tagline was like, why can’t I be like movies or music?

And we had this like like idea of wanting it like spread right? I don’t know. Like grow so it’s like the idea is and opening isn’t just artist and the artist Friends and their teachers, it’s like this real broadening of this beautiful thing. But for me anyway, I’m at this point where I just don’t give like I can’t give a fuck about

that. Like I can’t give a fuck about trying to. It just feels like I’m bat bashing my head against the wall. I’m sorry. I just want to like I just want people to already kind of be there, interesting. Like, that’s beautiful. If we can get a show and we can get people that, don’t you, no soup identify with this stuff to enjoy it. But do you, do you care about that with like wet with your prayers?

Is there a sense of like I want poetry? Free to reach a bigger audience or a more mainstream audience or is it okay if it’s mostly people that, you know, studied, you know, we’re creative writing. Oh sure. In those or maybe not started but you know what I’m saying? That are just it, just get it. It’s I guess it’s an accessibility question. Yeah.

I don’t know how much I think about that because I’m not in control of it, you know? Like the motivation is just to like I’m interested in words like workshopping things and like and that’s you know, that’s where it just comes from. And then like I would say that like the that has happened. We’ve had a lot of people come to like readings and be like, I didn’t think I was interested in poetry and like now I think I

like it or like this feels like a nice starting point or like a welcoming like intro into it. So I think that’s happened but it wasn’t like the goal if I’m writing a grant. That’s the goal. Yeah. Yeah. I mean like that show you. I can I can say that about stuff cause that’s what they want to hear but like yeah, it’s not really that.

You like yeah, I don’t know if it if it hits it hits four dozen that’s it’s okay to Me. Yeah, there’s so much fucking content in the world. Like, yeah, like, I don’t know, I’m not controlled and Shrugged for the listeners represent that here. The letter had Greek, it is a particularly audio intensive couch eyes.

It’s been like very hot summer days and I’m sitting here with no teacher and then I get up and it’s like, oh yeah. Oh yeah, wow. Okay, this one’s called que hay. .A h 0v Cove. Okay. I hope the beauty of it. Rishi ation. Yeah so okay we little Mona. Yeah what this is this is this a

brassy the the boxing before but language is this like can we? This is like en masse. I mean yeah, you buy from Covey. Yeah, I think the music is just and the brushing. Yeah. Sex. Do what the creases of back pain is so bad. It’s so dumb. Yeah, yeah really awful.

Oh no. They have they have some more look at this. This is just like, fuck, you know, like the champagne. Follow the Paint and Sip. Yeah. Yeah. The one. It’s like a whole like paint and you sit brand of activity. So, you like, you go to a place and you all you drink champagne, and you paint a painting, like

you all paint the same paint. If you never, you never seen one of these places that have these in Melbourne, where you have to take you while you’re sitting here like it kind of Life drawing but you go and you having a wine. Yeah, with like it’s your Maids from work. You can’t anything. Yes. And so you’ll all paint like for example, the Sydney Opera House in the style of vanga, okay? And you only get that and then

you like walk out and go to the pub and you’re like holding and you’re like, look what I did. You have to do it in the what you’re told. Yeah, you do what you’re told. Well, pretty much get in trouble for deviating really? Yeah. No not, it’s not like coming to your eyes. It’s like, yeah, I yeah. I mean what’s the desire that you like my work is really ruined any kind of like desire for Freedom they like No, I love

being told to do the fucking opera house. I love the opera house and my little pain, I guess they’re saying. I wouldn’t even know where to start in the first place. You have to give them all the constraints because they’ve never painted the fries. So many constraints. I didn’t I’ve been teaching myself to paint. Oh cool recently, I like the last month, getting back here and like I mean when I say

teaching myself I mean just doing it and like having no plan. Yeah, that is just this is like formerly a very like it’s probably like Such a ancient idea. It’s like big thing made up of small things like there are some beautiful versions of that. Yes, definitely. I definitely one of the an

artwork in the style that I love is like it was like when Flickr was a huge thing and it was like the flicker Sunset and someone like because the sunset was the most photographed thing on Flickr, right? And I’ve forgotten the name of the artist but she made this kind of beautiful digital image of like a million Sunset photographs on more that had both formed into one Mega son. Sunset.

But yeah. At the time like maybe this was like 15 years ago, a ten year 2006 or something. Yeah, it was actually like a beautiful moment because we’re here we weren’t so used to. Like yeah, sharing it and the sunset has this like unparalleled. Like everyone has access like, everyone feels comfortable like

someone that would never take like an artistic photograph. There’s a beautiful sunset and everyone stopped on the way home from work and then has its own. Yeah. Kind of beauty but it does the show until like the human-like. Like, you know, it’s attractive like that Mosaic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, sure. It does feel like it’s just, it is it a cheapness that were of a

diversity? Like, it’s like, it’s giving like different if you letting my inquisitive. Yes. Yeah, it’s too easy. We’re also objecting to just that that very blank like, it’s just like taking it from here and putting it somewhere else. Yeah, we’ve just, I’ve just showing you the thing. That’s what I objected to the Prometheus scene, at the end of the lighthouse. It’s like, I’m showing you the

thing like just, you know, Yeah, it’s like they’re telling me not showing me, you know I don’t know what the fuck that is. That’s a design object. Yeah.

Now. Okay, let’s go into one, be yourself. Let me just find the one. This one’s interesting that this is something of themselves become beautiful and interesting. Yes. Yeah, because we’re seeing at one level here, easiest hundred quid I’m ever gonna make is that

for these rules. Well, maybe they maybe they should increase the retirement age.

Wait, what happened? What age? Make it higher because I love everything about these videos. Was the first comment there. Yeah, I’d watch it all day and nobody everything is. I don’t know what’s going on. Yeah, I yeah I mean there’s like this strange flavor going on.

WOW. Wow, very straight-laced. So one’s going really into okay personal experience. Yeah, that’s a diary entry. You know? Just keeping people. Poetry row is a master. It’s true. Yeah, that’s how you? Yeah. That’s my favorite comment.

Exactly. It’s a screenshot for the

excellent source. Thanks guys. Really beautiful. Yeah.

Okay. I think that’s all of the leather. Double stuff. I think that’s all of my eyes. I will probably keep this list growing though, because it’s just like, it’s not. They’ll have to like, publish a whole book of essays. Yeah, right. All right, yes. Yeah, on this stuff. Okay. And then maybe to close out today’s episode of got a

reading, you missed the first paragraph of this, but we’re just reading this bit by bit. Should be, like, give any context whatsoever? Or just like, look, like a recap of what happened. Okay, so last time, okay, last time on have to And yeah, I have to know. Okay? I have to arrive at knowing it’s called Mission many. Okay.

Last time on Mission mini, I’m leaving some breaks for like music cues and shit good. We’re introduced to Sam Cooper. We actually don’t know much about him yet, but he drives a mini-cooper and he’s like, looking for any excuse. He can to get in the car, he doesn’t want to walk to the cafe, to get a coffee in the morning.

He’s gonna drive. That’s kind of, that’s kind of where we’re up to. I’m sorry, I can’t give you any more condo. That’s I need. Okay, let’s just pick up from this scene, he stood by the open window of his apartment, in La pedrera, the Gowdy fantasy building, that anyone with any taste would sell their

grandmother to inhabit and took a 50 cent coin from the pocket of his black jeans heads. He take the car Tails, he take the car and if the coin landed on its side, he’d walk with a small private smile. That lit up. His blue eyes, Sam toss the coin. Watching it Glitters. As the sun caught, it’s somersaulting motion and let it fall to the polished wooden

floor at his feet tails. The car was five minutes later, the dock silver Bonnet of his car, nosed out of the garage, on to the bustle of color, are their provenza and headed for rambla de Catalunya. At The Familiar sound of the engines, throaty Rumble, the local newspaper seller looked up and waved just one of the many things that made Sam feel at

home in his adopted city. As he rounded the corner, Sam spotted a space that looked about six inches longer than Car. Perfect. He was about a Dodge into the Gap. When a woman suddenly stepped out. Head down, oblivious from between the parked cars, a couple of meters in front of him, Sam jammed his foot on the brake and clutch, his right hand automatically knocking the car

out of gear. Fuck the Screech of his tires. Finally caught her attention and she looked up. They stand horrified at the stationary car inches from her thigh. Sam, flung open the car. The door of the car are you okay? He asked in his fluent cattle and she nodded Ali. I’m sorry I was miles away. I recognize you Sam reverted to

English, as he realized who she was. They breakfasted in the same Cafe every morning and he’d seen her reading. American magazines details were among the things he did best. Oh shit!

Let me just get to the end of this little scene here.

Not, let’s leave it there for now. Okay, how much, how long do you want to do this thing for in each session? You know, because we’ve got a lot to get some. I mean, it’s Benny. But like yeah, if you have three more years of yeah, what will work on water color? This is a work in progress.

Yeah. So this is yet. Take a look. It’s like a, it’s written by a famous English, Scottish author. Val, mcdermid. She like a crime? Yeah, I think she did like, oh, there she is. Yeah, so it’s an, it’s an as kind of a serious. We were talking about like, Matt was saying like, when you bought the Cooper, a Mini Cooper, they would like give you this book as I can.

Kind of like, you just you think about it and they said, what you, they literally? Well, well, it’s thinking about how this book because the book is essentially add OIC. So that’s the head. The cars are sold out, okay. Registration, and interesting. Way to like, yeah, get a book

and oh, yeah, you know, like yeah, yeah, it’s so 90s. Like, people really did used to read books, huh. That’s all you had. So it’s really strange, but kind of beautiful are. Yeah, beautiful. You’re really beautiful. Enjoying the beautiful. Yeah, these haunting to be alone. Yeah, I think reading over it last night.

I think Val is kind of in, on the joke to some extent. It’s Val was cashing a paycheck? Yeah. Absolutely. Not a big paycheck. That is for sure. I recollect. What do you reckon? 100,000 pounds? Yeah, 50,000 quits and thousand pounds. Well, that’s his State. That’s a state prize.

You my stomach right now? I’m yeah. It’s real we’re gonna find ya that what’s the other guy doing? Why is pretty to hey Leon, he’s doing math. I think they collaborated call app maybe that he is here advertising director at mini painter. Sure if I can go eat. Yeah, let’s let’s eat something.

Thank you so much, Dan. Oh, do you have anything? You would like to plug anything coming up anything? Release soon. Hum not really but like I’ll be back in Sydney. Probably in May to launch our next book, which is a book from my friends, Rachel schanberg and

Jody infeld. And they do. They’re both artists and they wrote.

It’s like in response to all this time. Now, get long answer to your question. Now, that’s okay. The, the book is based on a book that Bernadette Maiya Lea Anne, Brown and two other poets wrote in the 90s. It’s called the 315. It was writing experiment, they did across like a number of years where they were right these particular points in the

year. They would ride at 3:15 a.m. all of them wherever they were. And the kind of became is collected work and Julian, Rachel quite interested again in these parameters. And so they when they were living together, they did a month of writing at 1:53 a.m., but while they’re in the same, I guess they’re interested in, how

would it shift if they’re in the same place? Rather than like these other authors had like different places? So that came out next book. We’ve got Lea Anne, Brown herself is like, right? Some kind of forward, which is really cool. I reached out. And she’s just like this old poetry gal, and she’s just like in it for the, The Passion of it. So, yeah, that’s a next book,

right? Also will be back in Sydney, or be sure to clue you in on the, on the details of that glue launch. Dan. Yes. Do you have anything you’d like to read? Yeah, I was doing on that. Yep, I’m just scrolling right now through. I have photos of these typewriter Palms. I was talking about cool. Yeah so I think I’ll read one of

them. This is way. This is fucking loose. You. This is leaning in today, heuristic. Let’s say so maybe that maybe that’s why I want this one. Perfect. Let’s see how it operates. Its number 21, which is on Christmas day.

Okay, on Christmas day. I wake ill, totally fucked up but enough to exclamation point I also wake knowing coldness in my feet partially existential, of course, and that great doubt may be the very reason I get up at all. I really must study my own doubt after calling my family.

I decide to be alone for the day. Sending Branagh with a cowardly tiramisu made from tofu and coconut my disappointment at its coffee strength. I did need to die for a day. I needed musicians. Not people. And I would have sex with myself, too. And think I know how this ends. Of course, this gets Oil. But I decided to write my magnum

opus today, and really have fun with it. Really tests different things out. Like, priming you to think that I even had it in me and if you did not feed me, Hold on, let me do that again.

And it gets emotional. But I decide to ride my magnum opus today and really have fun with it. Really tests different things out, like priming you to think I even had it in me but I wouldn’t write it all if it did not feed me so it does feel like we all did it together. I’m dedicated to my doubt in the way I would pull up and just be dead for poetry or less dead than naked.

I’ll be doing something different to prove my love to the world and perhaps nothing has ever been discovered, just conceptualized. And we get stuck there for a while which makes knowledge even more expansive, Which is also Elusive. And when I visit the tiramisu return from friends, I remember the Russian honey cake I made when I was early loving you and the desert becomes something

else entirely as if this doubt might be the very Magnemite asked for fucked. It up a little bit but I think it’s I think it’s something nice about its final comment. Like the Poetry album that I li Mi did and I like they do the take where they keep all the mistakes in.

Yeah. And they might start again or might they might just go from where they left off. Yeah, I think Miss that’s important. Mistakes important. Yeah, I agree. Do you want me to keep those in? Yeah. Keep them in. All right. Cool. All right. Well, thanks very much for joining us. You’ve been an outstanding guest? Yeah, thank you though. It’s good. It’s good. It’s good to be here. Thanks for having me. All right, see ya.

Yeah.

Show notes

We Discuss Dan’s poetry and work as editor of No More Poetry, https://www.instagram.com/b_odies/ https://www.instagram.com/no_more_poetry/ Long meandering chat about art, poetry, audience, cinema, TNs (again). Readings from Jessica Rose Pearson's new collection, Yearning at The Opera House We use some cheesy hype-art accounts to springboard into a discussion about: What are the most interesting questions to ask about an artwork? and how do casual audiences versus in-the-know people experience discomfort when seeing art? Etc.. The Part Where We Talked About Bad Art: https://www.instagram.com/sunday.nobody.art/ https://www.instagram.com/k.ahove/  https://www.instagram.com/art21/ https://www.instagram.com/catherineopiestudio/ (but we like Catherine) https://www.instagram.com/gethyndaviesart/ (retirement age joke) https://www.instagram.com/p/CpzgPx4qmHI/  Reference:  https://www.instagram.com/jessica.rose.pearson/  Rikrit Tiravanija 🍚 https://www.moma.org/explore/inside_out/2012/02/03/rirkrit-tiravanija-cooking-up-an-art-experience/ Jon Rafman’s 🤯 Street view photography https://9-eyes.com Penelope Umbrico's 2006 work involving flickr sunsets http://www.penelopeumbrico.net/index.php/project/suns-from-sunsets-from-flickr/