4.11 Hung Up trip to Lottie World

Transcript

Should we do this? Yo! Welcome back to Hung Up, episode 4.11. Your boys Matt and Aiden. This week we’re talking to Lottie World. What do we talk about? This week we’ve got paintings, shifting between objects and ideas, going to the sauna, William Kentridge, ornamentation culture in PNG and how that interfaces with our idea of art versus their idea of art, which was actually really interesting.

Part of the discussion. Cyclical time and friends with a sense of humor. And do we talk about the music biz? And we talked all about the music business. Which is interesting. This was like one of my favorite episodes. Thank you so much Lottie. Yeah. It was nice to meet you for me for the first time. Thank you for being so open and bringing so much to the episode.

Alright. Run the tape Marissa. Still looking good. Is it weird to like see your work after you’ve like sold it again? Um, I’ve already told Matt a million times, it is my favorite one that I made. I love it.

Because it’s about, um, desire paths. Um, in parks, like when they put like a pathway, like in like a nice looking way, but then people just cut through. And I was thinking, Oh, that’s so sweet. Like make your own way. Like on your desire path. It sounded like cute in my head. And then I made two works about it. Um, but it’s so cool to see it again.

Yeah. It’s beautiful. Cool. It’s got a bit of fur on top. Yeah. I put fake model grass from like model train. Um, yeah, the, the sister painting of this painting has it all over the front. So it really looks like a park, you know, desire path style. This is the more spiritual one.

Yeah. Cool. The desire path of the soul. And then I’m just looking at the park. Yeah, totally. I’m looking at the back of the painting and there’s like a tiny little, like two by two centimeter portrait of a dog. Oh yeah. Who is that? It’s just a sticker. Um, and I would just sign off my paintings like that because, um, just a big fan of, um, dogs and like their vibe and stuff.

Yeah, totally. I really relate to probably golden retrievers the most. Hell yeah. Um, and there’s actually golden retriever on the back of that. So. Fuck yeah. Oh, now it’s hanging like a pinata. Yeah. We’ve got it. It’s like an installation. I’ve installed it. I’ve installed it. Yeah. This is how you should leave it.

I’m okay with that. Yeah. I’ve got my star hanging like that. We’ve got to think about how we display art. Yes, we fucking do. Swinging a square painting around on a line in the middle of a living room is, um, new, exciting, different and exciting and different.

I’m really into this. I might have to leave it like that. Yeah. You might have to. Paintings need more movement, you know? Yeah. That’s where I stand. Yeah. No, I completely agree. Don’t let the wooden block of it all stop you from hanging it. There’s like some, yeah, like we said, there’s like the model train, um, grass texture on the top surface of the, uh, portrait of the frame.

So outside of the like front facing composition. And then the other three edge surfaces of the painting are like, have been painted red, red, the color of power. And yeah, can you like desire? Hell yeah. Is that like a hard decision to make to paint on the side of the frame?

Like, is that a big decision that moment? Well, I work with a lot of clay on the front and sometimes the sides look messy. So I put the red on the side. Some artists like painting the sides and think it’s more, um, clean to paint the sides.

But others, especially art teachers, they say, Oh, like the rawness of the sides of the painting is what make saying I’m putting paint on this object. But when you paint the sides, it saying I have made a new object. Hmm. Okay. That’s sort of my ending conclusion to that. Some teachers love it when you paint the sides. I don’t know. That was just, I mean, that’s what I, that’s one of the things that I love about this is that it’s, it is, it’s, it’s so much its own new object.

Like the way you’ve sort of signed off on the back of it and like the, you know, the, um, turf on the top and like, yeah, the red around the edges, like before you even get to the contents of the painting, it’s like very much its own object. And it’s so you as well, like, cause I know you. So just so the listeners know what the fuck we’re talking about. I’ve got this painting. Um, does it have a title?

It’s titled, um, the desire path. So I’ve got the desire path, um, uh, dangling from a string in our living room here. And, um, it was given to me organized by, um, my friends, I think principally Ella. So shout out to Ella. Thank you for. Ella. Thank you for. Shout out to Ella. Made the most awesomest album of the year. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Shout out Hubcaps Ella’s solo project. Um, and yeah, so we’ve got it, we’ve got it like dangling. So it’s, it’s sort of rotating and we’re like, it’s like on display, extremely extra display in my living room here. Um, so welcome to Hung Up, everybody. Lottie, we’re here with you today. Do you want to introduce yourself?

Hi, my name is Lottie World and I, uh, sing and paint and stuff. Um, yeah, we’ll definitely, can we use some of your music in the, um, in the thing? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Okay. Sick. I will rip it off YouTube or something. I’ll just give it all to you. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. I was actually, uh, cause I’m famously, or is this my coming out party? I’m like not on Spotify anymore. I’m band camp only. And I was looking for your album to listen to when I line by team. Sorry, sorry.

When I line by team. Sorry, sorry. And I was like, I can’t find it. And then I started listening to it in like a Spotify embed, like on FBI. But then I was like, cool, this will work. Like I’m like in a browser. It’s weird, but it works. But then, uh, in the embedded thing, you only get 30 seconds. So it was like 30 seconds of each track. And I was like, okay, like I give up.

Is this on the FBI website? Yeah. You can hear bits of it. Yeah. Cause I think it’s that you need, they like want you to download the app. So that was my bad, but. No, it’s my bad because this is my second call out for not having band camp and not, um, getting my shit together with the band camp. And yeah, I know it’s really awkward.

That’s an indictment. And it’s showing, you know, that I’m not, um, not so proud. Yeah. Showing your true colors. It’s like, yeah, you just don’t care about it. That I’m just all for like the streams. It’s about streams to me. And that’s okay. That’s okay, Lottie. Like, I just wanted to get that out in the world.

No, I’ve been wanting to, um, set the whole band camp thing up and, um, yeah, it is funny that you say that.

Just because, no, no, no, no, no. Just because I was thinking about something. I just had this conversation a few times this week about people going off Spotify. Yeah. And I’ve been like, yeah, yeah. Like I didn’t even realize that you could really just actually go off that. It is really nice. Um, like the, what’s it, Earl Sweatshirt was talking about it on something when he came here and being like, uh, don’t be careful with all your playlists.

And you’re just conjuring up emotions in you that like, um, and like curating your, um, it’s, it loses the, um, art, the artists, um, whole story. If you take just the best bit out of the album and stick it into a playlist with other things that have like the same, either like, I don’t know, BPM or sound texture or like, yeah.

I’ve actually got a thing about this, like connecting it to what we were talking about with the painting. It’s like when you have an album, um, that you can listen to in order, like it sounds kind of like old and like modernism, but it really is like an object. Like it’s a whole sort of thing that like, that, that sort of exists together that like, uh, you know, can become like a sort of, uh, what’s the word?

Like an accrued sort of statement that can be complicated by all the other songs. But like, yeah, a playlist kind of just destroys that and like mashes everything in this, in this way that we’ve become very used to. Um, so yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m Mr. Albums over here. Like obviously I’ve got fucking 150 records over there.

I think like, yeah, with that stuff, we need to watch out for like the pace that we take things in because I think, I mean, I don’t think I’m going to fight too much to be like, no playlist, no playlist. But, um, it is sort of like that, that type of energy is sort of the same as like, you know, phone scrolling and like, um, lots of flashy things that are all the, all like hitting the, you know, the dopamine or whatever.

Like it’s sort of in that same like vein. Although I will say something that I was thinking about. Tell me. Is that Terza’s new album, I think sort of plays on that, um, on the playlisting thing in a really smart way because each song like in the album, like I didn’t get through the whole album.

Like when I listened to it, like on its own, but then if I was to, I do like the radio trick on Spotify where you just, it just gives you suggested songs and it will come up and the song sounds so good against all the other songs. Like she’s used like the same beat in every, um, in every track.

She only uses one beat. That’s cool. And I think that she did that about playlisting and Spotify and the way Spotify, um, uses their algorithms. Yeah. I, yeah, really think that, uh, she was onto something. So clever. That’s cool. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Super cool. I bet you’re right.

That’s super interesting. It’s like, I remember reading some old, some old indie rocker, like David Byrne or something like that, talking about like, you know, records being made for how they’ll be listened. So kind of taking in like, oh, is it going to be headphones? Is it going to be like a cheap stereo? Is it going to be whatever? And I was like, you know, I’m, I’m not a musician.

I don’t know that much about music, but I was like, I remember hearing that for the first time and being like, oh, well, of course. How interesting that you’re taking in, like, you know, at the point of composition or production, you always got to be thinking about what are these going to be heard on? Obviously, I’m sure you guys, you know, both musicians know the fuck out of that. But that’s, uh, that’s super interesting to, to think like, yeah, of course, like the whole algorithmic machine.

And my housemates always laughing about, I haven’t seen these. They like give you these new playlists, like the AI ones and they give them these like funny titles. Yeah. Yeah. Like summer’s day or something. Yeah. But that’s so interesting to think. There’s like a guy and he’s like, hey, Matt, how’s your day? I think that we’re going to start it off with a bit of Terza and then we’ll go into some.

That is insane. Yeah. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. I haven’t tried it yet, but I’ve heard it before. Interesting. We’re very much, we’ve breached the membrane of this new, like creepy AI world. Like, did you guys hear the new Beatles song that just dropped yesterday? No, I didn’t. We’ll listen to it later. It’s got like, I didn’t realize this, but it’s got like AI, apparently AI generated John Lennon vocals.

Sick. Pending fact check. Marissa, fact check that for us, please. But like the, the vocals has this like ghostly swirling AI, like ghosts, like in the background. And it’s so creepy to hear. I was like, this sounds like shit. Like, what are we doing here, folks? It’s not good. Well, I don’t know. The melody is quite nice. I like the melody, you know, I thought it was a nice song.

It sounded pretty cool, but the vocals are like really creepy. It’s like this haunted, ghoulish vibe that I, I did not abide. I listened to it like on my way to go and see Milo’s like single launch yesterday. Oh my God. How was it? Oh, it was so good. Yeah. They all killed it. Like actually everyone really brought it.

And you know, what was really cool is like, it was a show put on by all the people, the back of house people at PACT, like P-A-C-T, that they all work there. And so they had like, you know, a whole day to set it up yesterday or whatever the day before. And they had the fucking sickest like stage. It was like a really unique sort of lighting and stage design.

And it sounded really good. Like Griffin was absolutely on fire and like Zsa Zsa’s like kind of really stepped up. Yeah. And like Milo was sick too. Yeah. It was, it was such a great night. It was really cute. And I was like, we got to put on more events here. Like what a cool space. Where even is this? It’s right near Erskineville station.

Oh, you know that big colorful, like painted garage door near, what is it? Telford street? No, I don’t know what street that is. Is it like just down from Erskineville station? Yeah. It’s right. It’s that building. It’s huge. That’s massive. Yeah. Oh yeah. They did the launch party there. Oh really? That’s funny. Yeah. Yeah. Did you go to that?

Yeah, I did. Oh, cool. How was it? It was awesome. I’d just never been to that space before. And I was like, how have I not? Because this seems like the best setup is like an outdoor area and then that big sort of warehouse inside thing. Yes. So it’s cool that it was there.

Hell yeah. Yeah. I’m sad that I missed it. Yeah. I didn’t realize it was so close to my house. Yeah. But I was like asleep yesterday. I went to the sauna. Do you ever fuck with like Ashfield sauna? Don’t blow up the spot. Don’t start me about saunas. I am like number one sauna fan. Yes. Yes. I get just like small obsessions through the year and sauna was my thing at the start of

the year. And you know, like, because I just thought it felt healthy. It was like the fun part about being healthy. Like I didn’t do like go for the run or like go for a swim or anything. I’d just go straight to the sauna and sweat it out. So I wasn’t really using it in the right way, but there’s like, it’s like a whole little

microcosm in there. The culture of sauna. I don’t know if you’ve been to the one at Bondi Icebergs. Oh, that shit is fucking crazy in there. It’s like really, um, it’s probably like, I don’t find a grotty when I go in there, but when I take my friends in there and I’m like, come on, like it’s the best thing ever.

It’s like the beach and you can see like the ocean from the sauna. And then, yeah. And then people go in and it’s like, ew, this, I feel like I’m just sitting on people’s like hot flesh that I’ve been before. And I mean, it’s fair enough, but I’m, I’m still into like, nothing will stop me, but the culture in there, the old guys just own that place.

And if you just hover at the door for just a second too long, someone’s gonna, you better close that thing, sweetheart.

You know, you gotta keep the sauna door closed. It’s like, oh my God. I’m like tracking, I’m tracking the arc of the door cause I’m sitting there and it needs to be like a quick, a quick open and a quick shot. And so if someone just does like a push and then they let it, I’m kind of pissed. True. I won’t say anything rather than like stare daggers.

I’m like, that’s two extra seconds. Yeah. It’s the whole, it’s the whole crew in there, whoever’s with you and everyone’s giving the eyes to the person coming. And then they’re like, and I know everyone’s thinking the same thing. Where are they going to sit? Like, oh, do I have to move now? Like, and I don’t know. I just think it’s so interesting that world, like being so close to people sweating, like

yeah. And yeah, I’m really into it. I really put me in sleep last night. But yeah, I used to live there and like every, like in Asher and then every now and then, cause so cheap, the Asher sauna, it’s like 10 bucks. Yeah. Or like if you buy a pass. Yeah, I’ve been to that one. And it’s like, damn, I almost like, if there was one near my house that was cheap, I live in Enmore now.

Fuck, I would be there all the time. And it’s like, we go there and we love it so much. We’re like, should we move to, like literally Asher was on the list again, just cause. Yeah, that one’s really good. Pretty good. That one’s got the steam room too. Yeah, the sauna and the steam room and the spa. Oh. Pretty good. Yeah, the spa. It’s all a bit gross. But yesterday, I think we were like, me and Gemma were like, we’re a bit like high from

the sauna vibes and we’re just like sitting there, like toweling off and we’re just looking at the scene in the spa and we’re like, fuck, this looks like a painting. Like we were a little bit high and we’re a little bit annoying like that where we’re like, everything looks like a painting and everyone is a beautiful, you’ve got their soul like bursting out of their chest, but it just looks so fucking good. Just like all the different characters like in and out of the sauna and they’ve got like

the kind of. It’s that relax. Yeah. Friday, Arvo. It’s the renaissance, like relaxing. I was giving a lot of that. Leisurely life and you’re really rich and you eat grapes type of relaxing is what’s going on in those saunas. It’s really letting go. Yeah. Nothing but freedom in the way your body is being carried when you are relaxing in a spa.

Yeah. It’s such a like, what’s the word? Like an excessive like luxury thing that we can all just go and do any day of the week. We can go seven days a week if we want, you know. Yeah. I really like all the body stuff as well. Like, cause I guess there was a time where I was like, I was like, oh, I couldn’t, I couldn’t do that. I couldn’t be like shirtless around a bunch of strangers.

So there’s like a kind of freedom in that. And there’s kind of like public intimacy that is quite like exciting. Like everyone’s hairy chests and like butts and boobs and legs. And we’re just like kind of chilling there together and all ages and genders. And I’m like, this is, there’s something like, I don’t know. You just don’t get that all the time. Yeah. That’s cool. That’s like a cool Greek thing.

Yeah. Yes. Ancient Greeks. Totally. I’m so with you with that. It, like, it all sort of fizzles away and you’re like, and I guess everyone’s glistening as well. Like everyone’s sort of shiny. So it’s like, wow. Everyone’s amplified. That is really beautiful. You’re looking at this old guy and you’re like, yes. Like the pot belly guys, like, you know, and you’re thinking.

So you look beautiful today. Yeah. I had a bunch of those yesterday. It was awesome. Fucking great sauna, sauna chat. Sauna geezers. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So do you have a favorite one? Lottie? Yeah. Bondi icebergs. Okay. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. And I suggest everyone go just because you can see the, I’m sorry, but you can see the

ocean from the window. Way better than Ashfield. Sorry, Ashfield. It’s $10. 10 bucks. Nine bucks. Isn’t that cheaper than Ashfield? Ashfield’s like 15. Ashfield’s like 980. I can pay the 20 cents for the view. I think that mine was $10.18. That’s amazing. Yeah. You’re $1 off. That’s it.

I’m going. Like 100%. I swear to you, Lottie, I’m going to go. Yeah. Go, please. And tell me how you feel after. Yeah. I’ll send you a message. It’s just a, I mean, the whole world of Bondi is like, it is a whole other like place I feel to here. Totally.

And just the experience of going to icebergs, I was just trying to do it regularly for some reason. I was just really into it at the start of the year. Like swimming in the pool as well. Yeah. I can’t really swim that well though. So you just jump in, sauna, jump in again, sauna, jump in again, sauna. Oh yeah. Alternating is crazy fun. Yeah. I love that.

Hot, cold. Yeah. Bondi is like kind of already like a sauna hazed hallucination. Yes. Just without the sauna. It is a bit. Just going there. Hallucinate. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. My sister’s going to take her friend there. Like my sister just went to uni and made a friend at UWS and they’ve never left Western Sydney. So my sister’s going to take her to Bondi for the first time ever.

That’s so cool. And I’m like, she’s never left. She’s never left the West. Like literally she’s 20. Damn. That’s like me and Stan Moore. Yeah. I’m 30 and I’ve never left Newtown. Is that true? Sure. You grew up here? No, no. I was born in Johannesburg and we moved. So I have like lived there, but like I kind of, I’m a bit of a like Newtown person.

For like 10, 12 years in the West. Yeah. You haven’t really left. Johannesburg, South Africa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just went to the play. I went to last night was by South African artists called William. Wait, I just want to look it up.

Oh, William Kentridge. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. William Kentridge made a play. Um, and I loved it. Number one. Cause it was a really good time length. Ooh. Nice. And it just hit you like bam, bam, bam. Yeah. Beautiful music from South Africa. I presume. Cool.

Um, like the acapella style singing, but very textured, like a lot of you could call like stuff, lots of harmonies, lots of beatboxing, just sounds like, um, like, uh, yeah, just all really scattered sounds at points and then beautiful, like strong harmonies. That sounds beautiful.

And then William Kentridge, I think, I guess designed like the set and sort of the, the structure of the play. Cool. And so there was like this light box. It was a lot of his paintings as well. Yeah. He was sort of on a screen painting. And then there was like this whole cast of people singing and dancing and like amazing

dancing. And, um, they were using light in this really interesting way where they’d like come close to the light and the shadow would cast really big and then they’d run away. So you’re looking at the shadows and they’re all, it was very cool because he’s an artist. So he knows about like shape. Yeah. Oh, interesting.

My parents have got a William Kentridge, um, at their place. It was a wedding present because fucking uncle Aristides is mates with him. So like he’s like a family friend, which is crazy. I’ve never met him. Oh my God. Yeah. What’s the painting of a coffee pot? It’s, um, it’s not a painting. It’s a print of like, it might be a famous one.

I don’t know, but it’s like a hog, like a sort of wild boar sitting on top of a car and like a very crowded New York city, like Manhattan scene. It’s beautiful. Wow. Oh, cool. And so that was their like wedding gift and their joke. They’re like, this is our retirement. Like we can sell it when we retire. I haven’t seen that.

Yeah. Is it hanging up? Yeah. It’s hanging up in the like kitchen area. Maybe I just like walked right past it. Yeah. You were like lame. It was a little black and white. All people are. Yeah, exactly. They don’t have anything cool. And then our uncle who’s like actually mates with him has got like tons of these things scattered around. Like he’s real disorganized dude. It’s like, I mean, love, lovely guy, but like, yeah, they’re like, there’s like loose

bits of paper, but they’re like, yeah, it’s like, just like, yeah, down the side of the driver’s seat.

That is so cool. So, yeah, but that play sounds great. Is it still going? It’s on tonight. One more night. Oh, shit. So if you’re a student, it’s for 50 bucks. I think they’re doing like at the Opera House some like $50 for students thing because of the 50th year, like anniversary. Oh, yeah. That’s cute. Yeah. 50 bucks is pretty good.

Yeah. See, I’ve had it fucking, I’ve been meaning to go. I booked a play at New Theatre on. New Theatre. On South King. Yeah. Yeah. New Town. It’s like the really old, like red one right near, do you know, like the new Gould’s books? Is it near Pastizzi? Yeah. Like opposite Pastizzi.

Oh my God. I always will pass there. Yeah. So I bought a ticket to a show like during COVID and then it got cancelled. So I’ve had like refund tickets for like a year or two. Oh. And I keep trying to go. And I feel like I really do like theatre and like, you know, I’ve had a bunch of great experiences with it. But it just feels like me and everyone is like, I should go more. Yes. Like, yeah.

Yes. Like, do you feel like that? Or do you make, do you go? And I haven’t been to one pretty much ever apart from just last night. Because I was just told like, someone really looked me dead in the eyes and said, you should just go to this. Yeah. No more questions. Just get it and go. And I did. And it was good. But I, I’m always saying that.

I want to go to them, see musicals and plays. Yeah. Because that’s just real action right in front of you. And then it’s done. Yeah. Like, um, and you just have to be really, um, there. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. And it takes so much effort. I know.

Yeah. You gotta get all dressed up. Oh, to go, to do both, I guess. Oh, for them. No, I meant like them. It just is such an operation. I was going to say you’re going to get out of bed, brush your teeth. Yeah. Well, it’s hard to put together an outfit for it. But, um, just a dress and I’ve tried to wear a blazer because I thought like, because there’s a lot of older people that older people really have capital on the opera house events.

I guess they know it’s up old white people, but, um, I want to be getting in there and seeing what they’re all clapping about. And so sometimes falling asleep too. I got like a Rolodex in my head of like people in the front row of the, um, ballet or the theater. Yeah. Yeah. That’s so funny.

Yeah. Well, actually the only other time I’ve been to the theater is when, um, a family that I did maybe a few nannying shifts for. Yeah. They were like, oh, we’ve got an extra ticket for, um, this ballet if you would like to go.

Um, I mean the grandparents and the dad is going, but you can just go to like, um, take them to the bathroom if they need it or four or five. I mean, no, three young boys that were about like five to 10. Okay. And I was just escorting them to the opera house to see this really avant-garde play from

like, and I was like, I was so grateful to be there. Cause I’m like, oh my God, you guys barely know me. And you’re like letting me come with your whole family to sing and like fully paid for and everything. I was like, oh my God, I love you guys. But I will say like, I did not have enough background in the actual history of ballet

and like the history of what it even means to be a good dancer, a bad dancer. I mean, they’re all amazing dancers, but it’s just like, you need sort of background to even process a two hour ballet. And these young boys were like way better at, I’m coming out so tired, like bored for the

last 30 minutes. And these boys are like, oh, well, it’s quite more interesting than the last one we went to. What did you say, mother? Oh my God. They’ve got a critical take. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The season. Yeah. International ballet. Yeah. They were thinking critically. And I felt really.

That’s so funny. No, attention span. So important though. I went to one last year for my birthday, which was really sick. And that really got me going. It was like a triple bill. So it was three dancers and they were short. I think they were like 20 minutes each. Oh, cool. And I was like, this, this is like, you know, speaks to a lot of that. Like if I went to a trad ballet, like, yeah, I think it’s beautiful.

I think it’s cool. But I would be bored and lost. But this was so sick because it was like three completely different compositions, three different themes, three different, I think the same cast, but like three different sets of costumes. And I was like, this is what I need. And I’m not going to like feel bad about that. Like, do you know what I mean? I’m like, no, like you should have your audience in mind.

And I guess I get kind of angry when any art form or artist refuses that. Like if you want to make your like super tough, challenging shit, make it. But then like, if you also want an audience, like, please. And it kind of sucks that some of these like, I don’t know, forms that like a lot of like young, like everyone I speak to is like, oh yeah, dance is sick.

Theater is sick. But then like, no one’s going. Obviously, that’s not the case for music. Like, you know, so there’s something there. Even music is kind of struggling a little bit. Like live music. Yeah. I guess so. Yeah. I guess just, it’s just more fun and more flexible at like a gig. You can drink. Totally. You can walk. You can stand up and walk out.

Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Some intrinsic difficulty because you’re kind of glued to one spot. Yes. That’s probably true. I think with those things that isn’t like, I presume, I don’t really know for sure. Maybe you guys might know something about it, but it’s like to get into that game. If you’re a young creative person that wants to make plays, you’re going to have to be like

in working for those like bigger things that are a bit more catered to like an older age group or like, you know, I don’t think there’s as much room to be sort of like developing your own thing, then getting it funded and then playing it locally for like more of like the people around town, like your own crowd, which like.

Oh, that’s true. Yeah. Your friends might come, but like generally speaking, yeah, totally agree. I’m sure. Yeah. You can’t just be like, I’m putting on a play tonight and like, you know, whoever’s pretty good group. Yeah. With music, like you can get like your four mates and it’s not like you have to pay like a whole crew and like a whole lighting and people even to just practice and then develop

costumes and develop like a score and the performers and the, you know, it’s just a whole operation. So you sort of like, it takes way longer to get it together. But if, you know, but that can all be fixed by a little funding from a little Richie Riches, some place that I know they’re just sitting on stuff and sitting on money that they could

give, I don’t know, making up the story in my head now, but you know, money can be given to young people that have these ideas and then it can be made. Like it’s just a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, would be nice. Would be nice. Yeah. What do you think? We have had some differing opinions on the pod. Some people are like funding’s cool.

Let’s go to the government. And some people like fuck funding. Like let’s make friends with rich people and like go New York mode and like have rich people fucking, you know what I mean? Oh, is that what rich people, rich people in New York? Is that what they’re doing in New York? I mean, that’s historically what has happened in New York. You find a nice rich daddy and get him to pay for.

Yeah. Okay. You could do it that way. Or like you, or you like you schmooze, you know, and you’re like, I’m a cool artist and my paintings are going to be worth a lot five years from now. Like, like when you saw, like when you saw my Casey Chen vase, you were like, bro, this is going to be worth some money. Like, you know what I mean? Like that kind of. So Casey just went and said, look, dude, Casey could definitely go and do that stuff.

People think I’m expensive. Yeah. I’ve heard of one. Lottie said so. Yeah. I’ve heard of one where you’re like, you’re like, I get all the work you make for like the next few years. Oh yeah. And I’ll buy it all, but it’s all mine. Yeah. And people go into that and they kind of end up getting screwed. Cause you know, like any investment, it’s like, I’ll give you the money while you need to pay rent while you’re hungry.

Yeah. And then I get my paycheck down the line. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I don’t know. That’s sort of like what labels do. Yeah. Totally. Like music labels. Yeah. Right. It’s like, we own you for the next five years. You have to make this many albums and then like we let you loose, but we still get money

from everything you’ve made from those like five years type of thing. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the contracts can be really bad. We’re about to get into that. Well, hopefully we’re going to start shopping our record around and it’s like, yeah, just, I don’t even know where to start with that stuff. So. Well, I have a conclusion.

Oh yeah. Tell me the conclusion. Um, well, actually I don’t really have a conclusion for like the whole answer for the whole situation, but I know for me is that I should really stay away and never, ever think about it again. I actually tried to do a music business short course at TAFE this year.

You were doing that the last time I saw you. I stopped going to the classes. Yeah. Because I think it’s so not good for me to think about my work in a business setting and I don’t care if it doesn’t make me money anymore. If I should like post every week or whatever.

Cause I couldn’t even do that even when I was trying, you know, I’ve never done that. I can’t do the stories. Like I, I don’t, I, I don’t understand. Like there’s networking courses you have to do and all that stuff.

And I’ve just concluded in the past few weeks that I should just stay away. Cause it’s actually made me really stressed. This year has been a lot about like learning what the industry, the music industry is like. And I just really have concluded I can’t hack it in the business way and I should just keep my head down and go back to my room and just, um, do that again.

Yeah. Your listeners are hearing the like direct, um, you know, sort of, uh, result of like, you know, 20 years of just like capitalist, like squeezing on musicians. Like, you know, it shouldn’t really be like this, but I feel like you’ve actually elected the like more elegant path.

Like this is my like art and it makes me really happy. And like, you know, like why would I want to fucking try to turn this into like something that it’s not just to like make it more of a job or something, you know? I was trying. Yeah. And look, I’ve made fucking nothing this year. I’ve made one song and that was a cool song. But the whole like weight of making more stuff like completely got me down.

And I like just like have barely made stuff. Cause every time I try, I’m like, Oh my God, who is going to like this? And I just literally have one thing out. Like I really should not be caring about it, but I just, that’s the way my mind goes. Like I always think like way, I just get myself thinking crazy, crazy.

Yeah. And then now I feel like every word that I say into the microphone is like a curse. It’s a fail before it even comes out. Fucking sucks. Yeah. But it will go away. It’s just, I think that step to like be like, Oh my God, don’t think about the business anymore. Like it’s not, I’m not having fun.

Yeah. Fuck yeah. I love it. Yeah. Like it’s absolutely got to be fun. I wish I had, that’s where I draw the line. If it’s not fun, I ain’t doing it. And you’ve done great. I felt like I saw you make a similar kind of piece with your own music and it was for the better. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I’m like rereading, do you know, Orlando?

Heard of it, but I can’t read. I can read, but I can’t really. I don’t read books. Fuck reading. Yeah. Um, there’s this really beautiful, Orlando is this kind of like Royal Prince. They start off the book as a Royal Prince and they really love writing poetry. And then one day they invite this poet to their court and they hang out with the poet and they

end up like being the poet’s patron. And then the, uh, the, the poet ends up publishing this little book of poems that completely like destroy Orlando. Uh, and like, he’s the shit is poet. Like he, he makes shit. He’s like super flowery. He’s just some rich guy, like pretending to be an artist, like fuck him.

And Orlando gets super destroyed. Cause like he is rich and he is beautiful, but all he cares about is poetry. And he’s just been writing and writing and writing and writing since he was a little kid. And all he wants is like the respect of the artist and all he wants is to be like published and like, uh, uh, you know, a poet. And so he like burns all of his books except one. And he decides, and I wish I had the chap, like the book in front of me, but he just decides

like he makes this commitment. He’s like, I’m not going to write for the poet and I’m not going to write for the people. Like I’m just going to write for myself. And then like, uh, Virginia Woolf just has this beautiful extended passage about like how that was kind of like the hardest and noblest conclusion that he could make. And it is like kind of over the top, but it is like some real shit.

I mean, yeah. Like I definitely went through like a serious, like it wasn’t as simple as just being like, Oh well, like I’ll just make it for me. It was like, fuck, I have to let go of this like sort of thing that’s been drilled into me since I was a kid about like, you know, artists get like rockstar successful and like everyone wants to know them and be with them and like, you know, dah, dah, dah.

And like, like their music is influential. And I like, you know, I know how foolish that is. And even in my like adult years, I knew that was like extremely unlikely and like all that stuff, but still letting go of that, like hope was like quite difficult to do, you know? And it like, it felt like this really serious, like, um, change in my like sort of internal

motivation, motivation stuff. But to be honest, like, you know, I feel a lot more confident and like better about it now that I’ve made that change, I guess. But it was, it wasn’t easy. It’s not to say it was easy. I think Orlando, like, um, before making that decision, like basically dies for like a month.

I will see no humans and he tells his, uh, like whatever his, his worker to go and get him. A slave. Yeah. Basically to go and get him like the finest, like dogs. And just because he’s like for Orlando had, could no longer trust people, but like animals and nature.

So he takes it pretty hard too. Orlando took it real hard. Oh my God. My baby boy. Yeah. Lottie, you’re still like, it’s fresh. Right. It’s not so fresh. It’s just, I can’t hack it. I would totally go. Not fresh, but like recent, like these feelings of like, live right now. It is a good realization, I guess, because I mean, art really isn’t for all that at the

end of the day. And there is just, I don’t even know where I’m going with this. I was thinking a lot about lately about just the way art is taken in, in other cultures is like in PNG, for example, like before colonialism there, there’s no word for art.

Everyone like decorates and adorns everything that they use in their day-to-day life, whether it’s a bowl or a boat or a house, everything is ornamented and like beautifully carved out

with like spirits from stories that have been told for generations and generations. And there’s no word for like, look at this like beautiful piece, like composition. That’s so interesting. Wow. All that stuff. It’s just like the older people or whoever wants to will make nice looking stuff and everyone

like, you know, decorates themselves to reflect like nature. And I don’t know. I was just thinking about that quite a bit. And everyone sings like it’s all art is about like bringing people together. Yes. And I guess I’m sounding sort of corny. No, I think you’re pretty bang on there.

It’s not so fulfilling to be trying to grind to make like the pressure this year I was feeling was like, um, there’s formulas. If you release a single every two months, you will get a streaming pickup, which then you release all those

singles on the album, which should be at the end of the year, but not before this certain point in like, I think it’s like November, a bit before November. So that you get all the streams on Spotify calculated into people’s like listens. And there’s like all this other timetable that this streaming platforms and just money is working on that.

I was really trying to learn about and get my head around it so I could go. Yes. Rise and grind. I will make another hit. Cool song. But, but I mean, number one, I don’t need to put that pressure on myself because I’m still,

I’m just not like, you know, I think I also like once you just get a tiny bit of recognition, you’re like, Oh my God, I need to rush for more, like more, more, more. It gets, it tries to push you in there. Like mentally it was just all there. Yeah. Like, and I, yeah, I don’t know if I’m even saying this all well,

cause this is all just thoughts that I’ve been like processing lately. Yeah. No, sure. Like, but yeah, I was just trying to put myself in there and run with the, with the, with the pack. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I mean, fuck, like it takes, like, it’s funny. Cause like, you know, there are plenty of people and like people we know who like have careers in the arts,

like, um, you know, and lots of people like, especially in those bigger markets are actually able to do that stuff where it’s like, you know, I haven’t even heard of you, but like you’re literally making a living off of like country music or whatever. And like, Oh my God, I know. Right. But like, and like, that’s, that’s, that is all very well and good. And like, I think it’s, I think it’s fine.

Like I actually don’t have anything against anyone who wants to pursue the hustle. Like, you know, some of my friends are hustling really hard right now. And like, I respect that of them. It’s like, you know, it takes a pretty mature, like, like, okay, I’m doing this and it feels icky, but like, I want a job writing guitar songs, like whatever, like that’s, that’s cool. And you know, it takes a strong stomach to do it.

Yeah. But, um, yeah, just for me, like, you know, I’m, I’m so much more interested in being an artist than like, like it making me money, but, you know, like that if I can find some job that I can do two or three days a week, week, and then I get to like continue my art, you know, it’s evolution outside of that.

Then like, I’m so happy. I’m so much more happy that way. And like, then it could just be this like non incremental thing. This thing doesn’t, that doesn’t like have to accrue in value over time or like, it doesn’t have to like be reaching towards a grand climax. It can just be this like beautiful circular part of my life. Yes.

I love that. And that’s been, I’ve been, that’s been really like soothing to me, this idea of like circular, uh, or cyclical, like time or like, yeah, there’s such a capitalist imposition to see your life as like, you know, linear, like, yeah. And then next year, this, and then the year after, and then when I’m 30 and it’s just exhausting and it fucking sucks.

And it’s not real. You can’t, it’s not real. A line just keeps going. You’re going to die. True. Um, so yeah, I like that you said cyclical. Cause I’m always raving on about that. Yeah. Everything in this, um, like sort of like world is geared to like linear thinking,

linear, like acting, like, okay, do this to get to this, do this to get to this, like steps and steps. Um, but yeah, I, I don’t think that is like fully the way. Yeah. It made me crazy. It made me crazy. Cause I’d always be like, like whatever, like I’m quitting smoking. I quit smoking and then like a year later.

Thank you. And then I would start smoking again. Thank you. You know, and I’ve been doing that for, since I was 15. And with this like, yeah, with this linear thing, I’m like, ah, I fucking suck now. Like I spent so long quitting smoking. How am I back here again? Do you know what I mean? So it was like, put all this pressure of like, Oh, you know, my last album did this. And you know,

it’s always this, like, I gotta be getting better. But then I kind of switched it. I was like, Oh cool. I didn’t smoke for a month. Yeah. Like, yes. And then everything was like that. It’s like, Oh, does my fucking job, do I need to be like for, you know, do I need to earn more than I earned last year? And I was like, actually like, no, it doesn’t. And I’m still like, that’s new to me. I just came across like some, I was reading about it this year.

So I haven’t fully internalized it. Like, I’m sure I wake up most mornings with all of the anxiety of like capital and growth. And, you know, I got to impress my parents and my friends and shit, but I can tell that that is going to be like a way of living that I think is going to be pretty sick. Yeah. So I’m kind of, I’m trying to just want to live more in that world.

Yeah. Yeah. Every day, baby. Every day. Every day. Every day.

Take me to the time, it’s my day. It’s more than I feel you around. More than I feel you around.

And that he’s got a sound. So good. Like something new. It turns me on. Good day sunshine in the backseat. God, I wish that mood could never stop. Down on the ground.

The rainbow led me to the sun.

Please mother drive. Yeah. I think that the key as well for that is, well, actually, no scratch that. I was going to say before, um, some people really are well built for,

like, if you’ve got like a, a really, um, you know, you’re a smart thinker and you know how to get stuff done efficiently, all that business, um, you know, um, grindy stuff is not actually that hard and not actually that stressful. I think if you’re not wired for it, then that’s,

you know, why I was feeling that, um, pressure, but I think that like, if you’re built for, if you’re not, I, I, I, I’m not that much of a hard worker and sick. Um, I’m not, I don’t really believe in working so hard. And I’ve been like that ever since I was a kid.

Yeah. Um, and so I think I need to play to my own strength. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, but in saying that I was unemployed for the past four months or something, just dull bludging. Um, yeah,

I haven’t, I actually had a job this year for, sucked in ages. No, I’m about to, no, we can’t be saying that because I was dull bludging for, for, well, still sort of am, but I’m now realizing you can’t, you can’t, you got to have like a purposeful,

it was, it was good. I have a job now, but only for two weeks, but I’m just doing a deal. But it’s given me so much more lust for life than rotting in my, well, I was also a student. I was doing the whole business study. Yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah. But then I got this other job and then I said,

bye, I’m a working woman. That’s sick. Cyclical though, right? You get on it. Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah. Sometimes when you first get on it, it feels good. You’re like, fuck yeah, I don’t have to work. And then by the end I was like, fuck, I need to get off this. This sucks. Yeah. It’s not good for you. Yeah.

If you’re not, well, at first I was doing it cause I was like, I was doing like a bit of babysitting on the side and then I had an art studio and I was making stuff and like, and then like it had all this free time to sort of like make art, which then I could make money off. Yeah. But then exhibit a studio anymore. And then it just all went away.

Yeah. And then you’re sort of like, Oh God, where do I go? Like you need something to do every day to structure your life. Yes. It’s helpful. It is very helpful. You need to come back to some kind of structure. Yeah. Purely. Maybe one day, even if I retired, I’d want like something. Maybe it’s not paid work. Like, you know, a gardening thing that you do or whatever.

Or like a glee club that you go to. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I’m saying routine is important. Yes. Yes. That’s what I want to be in. The over 50s soccer. That’s cute. I like that. Do you play soccer? Yeah. I like soccer. Oh, wow. Cool. Um, I like playing sports when I get the chance. Yeah. Not as good at watching it,

but I did jump on the Matildas thing. Yeah. That was fucking sick. That was so fun. That was cool. It was so exciting. That was cool. That made me feel really hopeful and like, yeah. Um, strong. Cool. And, but I do like, um, playing sports. Yeah. Awesome.

Well, we play regularly. Oh yeah. Let me on your team. I’ll be on your team. What’s your team name? Crystal Palace FC. Crystal Palace FC. Yeah. It’s like Crystal Castles. Yeah. Just like all, all like the actual football club, Crystal Palace. Oh, see, yeah. You can tell I don’t watch soccer.

Oh, true. Hang on a second. We’ve lost, we’ve lost big A. Say that again. Yeah. In like local football comps, you’re meant to like, give me a name, Matt. Like what’s a classic example of like a bunny. Like the scary dodgy guys. No, but it’ll always have something to do with like balls. Oh, like two big balls. Yeah. And no idea. Yeah. Exactly.

Big balls team. Yeah. But I, um, my like family’s football team is in South London and it’s just called Crystal Palace. So when I was doing the team, I just gave it like a real team’s name. Yeah. It’s like Crystal Palace. Oh, And like, no, this was after a week or two of consideration, by the way. And Matt, it was so cool. I was like full best friend mode. Like everyone on the team was like,

what’s that? And Matt just like laughed straight away. Like he knew why that was fun. And I kind of, I think that’s such a good, I don’t know. Like you just don’t call your local team, like Barcelona football club. Do you know what I mean? I’m a huge fan of that name now that I know the history. It’s very straight off. Yeah. I’ve been doing, I’ve been doing a good,

like best friend laugh thing recently. And it’s not even like, I’m not like trying, like I just am naturally maybe supportive or funny, but like, I don’t know. Jack came to us the other day. He’s like, I’ve got this joke. I’m working on. It’s Jack from our band. He’s like, he’s like, um, what was it again? I’m going to butcher the joke. It’s like, it’s like,

um, yeah, I work for the FYI, which is like supposed to be like a secret intelligence service, but it’s like for your information. I don’t know. It’s like so stupid. Everyone’s groaning about this joke, but every time you were like, he said, he’s like, I’m working on a joke. Yeah. That was the setup. Yeah. That was the setup. That was so funny.

Yeah. I’m working on a joke about the FYI. Oh my God. And I was like, I was like, about the FYI. Yeah. I would be so idiotic. It killed me. And everyone else was like, bro, did you think that was that? Like everyone else hated it, but I was like, no, Jack, I put my hand on his shoulder like this. I got you, dude. That was funny. You’re the supportive friend, Matt.

Yeah. I think a lot of things, a lot of things are funny, like maybe more so than the average person. Yes. You know, it’s a weird, who was that artist recently? That’s good. It’s extremely joyful, chocolatey experience. Yeah. I was telling you about that. Annie Leibovitz. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Fran. Are they? Oh, Fran Leibovitz is the famous writer.

Is that that New York lady that’s really short? Yes. Yeah. She was, I was listening to an interview with her and she’s such a New York hater. I know. She is a bit of a hater. Are you a big fan of her? Not really. It was like the first time I really listened to her. The interview was cool though. I only saw, um, one thing on Netflix. She did.

I hope I’m talking about the right lady. No, we’re all talking about the same lady. Yeah. She had something on Netflix that I watched 10 minutes of and it’s that typical, like, why is everybody on the street? Gotta walk this way. Yeah. Cause it’s like, and I just can’t like really get, get on the, get on the, and Fran,

what’s the Leibovitz train? But what was she saying? Because I’m sure she has, that’s so fair. Um, great advice. She was talking about like friendship with, and I’ve forgotten her name. It’s Elaine from Seinfeld. Oh yeah. Oh cool. She has a podcast where she speaks to, yeah. Sorry, we’re just losing it. Big A that you’re back on. All the women that she vibes with. And,

um, yeah, she was talking about like friendship and she’s like, a sense of humor is like so important to me. And she was like, made this note. She was like, not necessarily like, I don’t need you to be funny to be my friend, but I need you to have like a sense of humor. And she really let those words ring out. And I was like, ah, interesting. Like we throw that around a lot. Yeah. Like, you know what can be funny or even if it’s not your sense of humor,

like you can still pay it. Yeah. Even if you’re like, that’s, that’s not funny to me. You’re still, you’re not like, like only my TV show is funny. Yeah. And I was like, that’s really, I thought it was sweet. Yeah. So you hear that Griffin Lewis? Yeah. It’s a funny joke. Okay. Yeah. You’re getting called out live.

It was funny. Okay. It was funny. We should do more. So give it a rest. We should call out people. Do you guys have anyone you want to call out right now? Um, yeah, sure. Let’s call out. Um, should I do it? I’m going to do it. No, we would, we would usually, um, we would usually like bleep out names that,

like we’ve bleeped out. Yeah. Oh wait, hang on a second. No, no, we lost you again. All right. Maybe we need to switch. It’s going to be so patchy. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, it’s fine. I’ve got you. Yeah. Go on. Did you have a friend, bro? I got you. Did you have a, no, you go, you go. I don’t know. We’re at Mag4 library today.

Me and my friend have, we actually have a tech company, which is funny. You own a tech company. You’re making it sound pretty big, but like it’s on the way, it’s on the way to do some stuff. We just hit profitability the last two weeks. Congrats. Thank you so much. Okay. Someone’s talking all this shit about, about,

about, we never would have guessed it. Hey, about not grinding. Yeah. Well actually, to be fair, you weren’t talking shit about not grinding. I was. I was cheering you on though, but the tech company was funded by the doll. But yeah, I’m a complex girl.

But so there’s one other tech company that’s doing the exact same thing as us. And it’s funny. We’re like watching each other’s stories and we’re like, quote unquote competitors. And me and my business partner had like a big fucking stressful day talking business shit. And then we came out of the room we were in and the competitor guy was sitting right there,

like in Merrickville library. And I like, like had like a knee jerk response. And I like pointed at him. I was like, look at that. And then I tried to turn it into like a knowing nod of like recognition. And he just like stared right back at me. I was like, fuck. Oh my God. Such an awkward, like nerdy tech bro confrontation. And now I just have to like live with that.

Oh my God. So I’m calling out that motherfucker. You know who you are. You just called yourself out. Yeah. But now I’m like, I pointed at you motherfucker. I like told the real story, but that gets beeped out. And I’m like, so my competitor was at the library. Fucking pointed right at him. And fuck you. This is business. I ain’t beeping any of that.

I didn’t think you were going to.

Yeah. Matt, who are you calling out? Um, let me think. Um, just like fucking like Sydney scene assholes. Like I’m no longer. Scene assholes. Yeah. Like, like just people who are like, like think they’re fucking heaps cool and like, don’t need to like talk to strangers anymore.

Cause they’re like, they’re at a certain like level of friendship with the certain level of coolness people. Like get the fuck out of here. Like that’s stupid. Cool people. Yeah. I’m calling out cool people. Stop being cool. If you’re cool, consider yourself indicted. Called out. You’re in, you’re in prison now. You’re in hung up jail.

Yeah. You’ve been hung up. You have been hung up. That’s cool. Maybe we should leave it there for today, folks. Yeah. Leave it on a bit of hate. Yeah. Leave it on a hateful end. Call anyone or anything out. Yeah. Any, any positive or negative call outs. Um, accepted. Um, I’ll just like to everyone to know that I will be gone for the rest of the

year because I’ll be doing hard yakka in the middle of Queensland. That’s so cool. And that’s what I’m calling out. That’s how everyone’s finding this out. Okay. Well, you’ve been listening to hung up. You can find us on Instagram at hung up. Dot au. Please send us a like and to follow.

Yeah. And share. Sharing it. It’s really cool. And just fucking give us money. Thanks for having me guys. Yeah. Thank you for coming. That was really fun chat. Really good. Um, Yeah. It’s cool.

All right. Should we hit it? Yeah. I’m making a candy sound. Whisper sugars in your ear. Such sweetness. Can’t you hear? Soft and round. Soft and round. I’m making a candy sound.

The ones that get over me quickly. Take me for a novelty. They don’t understand me. Hot, Hot candy. Too much for some to handle. Because it takes a professional. Takes a professional to eat this sugar. Acquired taste makes your stomach fuller. Savior. You’re my savior. You’re my savior.

You like my depth of flavor. Reservative free. I’m on an all natural. So saturated. Sweet taste. Artificial. This girl’s chosen you. Now you’re gonna be special. I’m gonna let you taste it.

Baby, welcome to my level. Soft and round. Candy sound. I’m making a candy sound. Whisper sugars in your ear. Such sweetness. Can’t you hear? Soft and round. Soft and round. I’m making a candy sound. Will you touch me and let me dissolve? Sprinkle through your bloodstream and into your soul. I am more than something that’s hot and shiny.

Spreading through your system. So you better come and find me. Closer, closer to me. I want you to be closer, closer to me. My girl. My girl. You know, I know.

You know, I know. You know, I know. I know. Soft and round. Candy sound. I’m making a candy sound. Whisper sugars in your ear. Such sweetness. Can’t you hear? Soft and round. Soft and round. I’m making a candy sound.

Candy sound. Baby. Thank you.

Show notes

Hey, welcome back to Hung Up. This week we’re talking to Lottie World about Paintings shifting between objects and ideas, going to the sauna, William Kentridge, ornamentation culture in PNG, cyclical time, friends with a sense of humour, the music industry and heaps more.    Outro song: CANDY SOUND - Lottie World    FYI bit: @no.hands__