3.4 the Corey Black Interview

Transcript

Hey, Matt here. Today we’ve got an interview with Corey Black, who we saw in the last episode

at the NAS Postgrad Show. Corey’s on Instagram at Orphan, O-R-F-Y-N. And we are on Instagram at hungup.au. Check us a follow. Enjoy the show. Not for pets. Dune is not for pets. Yeah, no.

Yeah, I guess it’s cool to talk to you, man, because I guess we often like to see work without really thinking of the artist. We kind of just like storm in and we’re like, when we go to a show, we’re like, you know, not like not ignoring the artist, but we kind of are like, let’s take the work first and foremost. We’re kind of less interested in like any kind of

intent or interpretation. We’re just kind of like, what is here in front of us right now? And I think when we walked in, it was like when we went to the Postgrad Show, we like hung out in the studios first, just like by chance. And then we walked into the main gallery where your work was. I didn’t even realize because there’s like a few, there was like a few sculptures,

I guess of yours on the floor as well. And I didn’t realize it was the same work. But yeah, there was something really exciting about your stuff in that room. It also struck me as like pretty different, like vibe wise to everything else that was in the room, which was really exciting. Like it felt a lot like darker and it kind of was glitchy. A lot of

things were, you know, like they’re still very nicely made objects, but a lot of things in that room were very kind of squeaky clean feeling. Maybe like you could go ahead and just describe those for us and for the, for the listeners. Yeah, sure. So, um, so a lot of the work, uh, in, in the main gallery space was made, uh,

kind of towards the end of my masters. And so, um, there’s like different kinds of sections of things that have their own kind of like three lines and like networks of thought. So like a lot of the big aluminum prints, um, was like one area of kind of research that I was going through.

And then the same thing with the prints on the perspex. Um, uh, a lot of the work that I do, as you probably have guessed is about technology and how we interact with technology. Um, and it kind of became apparent to me, like towards the end of the course that, um, my work is very focused on

process and it does focus on process in a way of like the processes that I engage with and that I make the work with, uh, ways of me processing the world and the research that I engage with. Can you unpack a bit and talk about your process? Yeah, sure. Fabricators, like who was, who was

doing, you know, printing and stuff? Yeah. Um, so I was very fortunate to receive a scholarship for the masters. And so the place that gave me that scholarship is called Look Print and they’re on Parramatta Road. And so they do all my printing and cutouts for me in terms of like the aluminum stuff.

Um, the actual content of that work is like, uh, kind of layers and layers and layers of just, uh, images that I’ve kind of, uh, picked out from my phone or from just like going down a rabbit hole on Google. Um, and so then I kind of, uh, go down another rabbit hole when I’m sitting on my laptop and

like I pixelate them and I stretch them and I shrink them and I rub them out. Um, and I just kind of fuck with them in a way that kind of mimics the way that information is trafficked. Cause I look at information itself as a material that I use. Um, I remember reading, I think it was, I think it was

the James Bridle book when he said something like, you know, essentially everything is information. And I mean, it seems obvious now, but like that really struck a chord with me. And so then I kind of went down the path of, well, I can use like literally anything to dig into. Yeah. Do you, um, do you have

like that, uh, like, yeah, you have an Instagram account. Like, do you use it much? Like, are you on, are you addicted to Instagram? I guess is what I’m asking. Uh, yeah, I guess you could say so. Like, especially with COVID Instagram’s kind of become like the main gallery that I go to in a sense. Yeah. Um, so yeah, like all of my saved posts are

just like mainly works that I like. Um, so yeah, that, that definitely informs it. Um, yeah. What’s your, what’s your like favorite thing to do on the internet? Like, like if not Instagram, like, do you have, do you have a place on your phone or on your like laptop or, you know, like that makes you feel those like art feelings that we’re kind of talking about? Like, you know,

where are you getting these pictures from? And like, um, no, I’d say Instagram’s probably the main thing really. Um, like, yeah, I mean, I did actually have a listen to the, the review you guys put up before chatting. And like, I did think all of the game references were pretty funny just because like,

that’s such an obvious like way to interpret the work. And like, I definitely do see that. And I appreciate that reading. Um, although I like myself, I haven’t played games since I was like 12 years old. Um, but yeah, no, I definitely, I definitely think it has become such like an incredibly

big part of our visual culture now that like, it’s just kind of impossible to get away from. Um, yeah, totally. Yeah. I was thinking, I’m just reflecting on what it felt like in that space. And there’s something about work like this, like work that is kind of like, I don’t know,

you’re talking about like, yeah, almost not, it feels a bit like there’s like a collage kind of sense, but there’s like hectic collage of information. And I’m thinking about how, you know, no matter how like frenetic an image is once you’re in the gallery, like it’s still so much more like

calm and still than the experience of like trolling through info online. Yeah. So I wonder, like, I’m interested in that difference because it’s like, it felt like for me when I’m like being overwhelmed by information or even, even just like really engaged with information in like a positive way, I’m still in that kind of like gambling addict, like flow state, like timelessness,

but like going to see your work, like, as you’re talking about it as like a distillation or an interpretation or like a reflection of like that process is always still like kind of calming for me because you’re still just looking at like, you know, a kind of, you know, small or medium sized,

yeah, like shape on the wall. And it’s still so slow. Like even in that, you know, in the Nath show, like in any gallery space, we are always a little bit reverent and respectful or like that’s at least the tone. So yeah, I thought that’s, that’s kind of an interesting mix. Like when we make works that are, you know, you can obviously recreate that intensity when you start creating moving images,

but it’s still images kind of has this calmness, especially if it’s abstract, you know, especially if it doesn’t have like a, you know, you could be pretty triggering if you wanted to have representations of images, but like an abstract image. Yeah. I don’t know. I remember feeling, yeah, quite at once, like

very excited by them, but also still in that realm of like eating my vegetables. Like I’m just looking at one thing and it’s in front of me and I can’t replace it with an infinite list of things right now. Um, yeah. I guess I was going to ask like, um, in a roundabout way, like if you, and, and like,

I know that a grad show is, is a bit different. I mean, we weren’t there on the opening night. Like we went to the, we recently went to the, um, the, the, the grad show, grad show, like the bachelor’s one. And it was just like, like, I was joking. I was like, I refuse to see any art because there was just too many people there and it was like a social thing. So like, that’s not really what I’m talking about, but like when you’re, when you show your work, um, in a gallery,

what do you, what do you sort of expect or like, what do you anticipate people’s behavior will be? Like, do you see that kind of reverence stuff that we’re talking about as like, um, as a hurdle for, for people to kind of access your work? No, not really. I mean, to be honest, it’s not something I am super focused on. Like, that’s,

um, like a big question that you get asked a lot. Like, what do you intend for the viewer or what do you want the viewer to get out of this? And I don’t really think about that. Like at the end of the day, I think art can be incredibly selfish and I think that’s okay. I think the work can do other things

without you necessarily having to push it in a certain direction. Um, yeah, like, like what you were saying before about feeling kind of calm in the presence of those works. I think like that resonated with me because I think when I make them and when I go through that process of layering so

many images, like that’s kind of my way of debriefing from all the images that I see every day and all the images that I’m like, you know, we’re all forced to look at. And so in a way that that’s kind of me attempting to unlearn like the constant media saturation that we go through. Um, yeah, I had a,

we, uh, the photo students, we had like a really interesting conversation a few weeks back with some curators from art space. Um, and one of them asked me like a really good question, which I hadn’t even thought of before, which was, um, you know, are these images finished? And I’d never really thought about that before. And I don’t think they are like, I don’t think they’re static. I think they’re

always kind of shifting and moving. And I think if anything, that’s what I hope the viewer would get out of it. Hmm. One of the things we pointed toward in that, um, last episode was like this kind of tension between the border, like introducing the border as this strong element in the composition, which

yeah, it gives it this amazing kind of back and forth, like flow or dialogue between the contents and the, and yeah, like the sort of its interaction with the space is super cool. Um, but I wanted to ask like those, those images that go in, do you like, do you sort of like save them? Like if you, if you looked at an image of your, at like one of the works, could you go like, oh, that’s like

a screenshot of like something that I took like last year, do you like sort of, uh, remember or save or record any of that stuff or does it kind of get washed and like squashed down into the work? Um, yeah, no, it kind of gets like lost in a way, which I think is also an important part of the

process because like I said, it’s that kind of unlearning aspect. Like I can recognize small little things and like little snippets of images that I’ve used. Um, but yeah, no, it’s definitely not something that I kind of keep track of like a diary or anything. I have thought about like screen

recording myself making them or something like that, but then like it’s, it’s, it can be so truncated. Like I could work on one thing for like six hours and then stop for like a week or two and come back to it. Yeah. I see. Yeah. I really like that take that you’re being selfish when you’re like from your

perspective, cause you’re kind of like saying you don’t really give a shit about the audience. Maybe not, maybe that’s not exactly what you’re saying, but I kind of like that take because it feels like it like frees me in a way. Cause I’m like, I don’t have to care about, you know, what the artist was necessarily intending. I can come and I can be selfish as a viewer as well.

Yeah. And I think that like confidence on both ends is only a good thing. Like if people are willing to like make stuff without necessarily thinking about the audience, that’s probably a good thing. And if audiences are willing to like say what they actually feel, even if it’s not that much,

like that’s a good thing too. It can be like, I’m kind of bored or this is whatever. Like you don’t have to say it’s good cause you’re not thinking about a person necessarily, or like hurting someone’s feelings. So yeah, that’s a cool take. And I was going to ask you, I don’t know if you still, but like I, if you had been to any galleries recently or if there would like, is an ideal

space for your work? Um, yeah, I actually went, uh, gallery hopping on Saturday for the first time in quite a while. And I went to maybe like four or five different galleries. Um, but the highlight for me was, uh, Coma Gallery in Darlinghurst. I’d never been before, but, um, it’s a really nice space. It’s

just kind of like wedged in between like a lot of restaurants and bars and stuff. And it’s just this little upstairs space. That’s, um, like a converted old terrace. Like it’s obviously got very old, uh, bones, but, um, the space itself is quite, you know, white cubey, very kind of sterile. And, uh,

there was a solo show there by Kate Bahanas, which, uh, she’s like a pretty up and coming artist from Adelaide. And she had these big kind of welded stainless steel, uh, sculptures with these kind of flowing kind of, uh, amorphous, uh, fabric pieces that she’d kind of hooked into the stainless steel,

um, with all these little intricate like beads and threads throughout. And I, I really liked that. Um, it made me want to become a better welder.

I’ve kind of come to the point now where I’d say probably the majority of the work I make

is conceived by me, like at home on my laptop or on my phone. Um, and then it gets sent out to a whole range of different, uh, places. So I, I kind of, you know, look at the work I make as having multiple authors. Like I’m not the sole person. Like I just kind of choreograph things in a way. Um, so

yeah, the sculptures you, you guys saw on the floor, like they were probably the last works I made. Um, like the sandcast aluminium and the sandcast bronze. Um, they kind of, they came about because I was actually doing a fair bit of 3d printing at Nass. They have a 3d printer, but it’s since

broken and I haven’t been able to do anything with it. And the parts have been like lost in transit for like nearly a year now. So like all of the things I was 3d printing were only half printed. Um, and so there were, there were things that I was making on, uh, software like blender or, um,

um, Z brush. So it was just kind of very intuitive, um, playing around with like digital sculpting. Um, and so then I kind of wanted to continue that, but I didn’t have the option of 3d printing. So I went to a reverse garbage and they had all these amazing, uh, like plastic blobs from like these

industrial, like waste runoff plants or whatever it is. And they were kind of like, you know, I saw them and I thought, well, this is probably the, as good as it’s going to get to the things that I was sculpting and hoping to 3d print. Um, and so then I thought like it would be interesting to kind of

trap them like these kinds of like 21st century fossils in a way in like a process like sand casting, which is like one of the oldest, uh, if not the oldest, uh, sand casting or casting process. Um, and so then, yeah, I just took them to a foundry in mascot and basically said like,

can you cast these for me in aluminium and bronze and kind of had to step back and, you know, hold my breath a bit because I’d never done it before. That’s always what it feels like. Like if you’ve never done this kind of thing before and you’re spending a bit of money, it can be a bit anxiety inducing, but I was really happy with the results. Did, had they done, had they worked with an artist

before this foundry? Um, yeah, actually they do a lot of, um, like big monumental public sculpture and like, I think a fair bit of like sculpture by the sea kind of stuff. Okay. Um, so yeah, like they were pretty happy to work with me. Um, that’s always another thing that you kind of have to get

used to is like going into these places and kind of coming off as a bit of a freak because people are just like, why do you want to spend money on this? And why, like, what’s it for? I love that. And I love that as like this kind of hidden history of the work that it has to touch all these like

commercial processes and touch all these different hands and you know, it’s relationship to the market, you know, that you’re, they’re like, why do you want this? Like, why do you want these little ugly, you know, sculpture things? Like why, yeah, why are you paying us for this? And what could this be worth? It touches all these interesting points of, yeah, like, I guess just capital and production and

yeah, it’s exciting. It’s exciting that it all, and also that you could end up with a bunch of this stuff and like not know what to do with it. It’s a very kind of like awkward space, but funny in that way. Like I remember when I first started working with the guys that do all my printing, um, like one

of the first things I did with them was, I don’t know if you guys saw it in my studio, but it was that really long blue kind of pixelated, uh, print on acrylic. Um, and yeah, when I sent, when I sent the files to them, I got an email back like a few days later, which was like a whole thread between like

the production manager and the technicians. Is this file corrupted? Do we need to print this? Like, and I was like, no, yes, please, please print it. I’ve been waiting for ages because of COVID. Like, yeah. Wow. That’s so good. I love it. I fucking love it. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Do you sort of like

anticipate or like care about trends in any way?

Not really. Like I kind of, um, when I come into contact with that sort of stuff, like I

either just think it’s funny or brush it off or think like, well, is there something more to this? And how can I mine it and how can I use it? Um, but yeah, I definitely think, um, like one, one of the movies that I wrote about in my paper, I think it’s the only movie I wrote about

was this film called demon lover, which came out like, I think 2000 or 2001. And it’s kind of like in line with the whole, everyone’s starting to get like overwhelmed with images and like, Interesting. Technology’s kind of catching up with, uh, all of us. And it’s about these two companies that kind of,

uh, kind of vying for this product, which is taking over their lives, which is actually a company that produces like the world’s best hentai. Um, and so it’s like, it goes kind of crazy towards the end, but like, it’s just got all these images and all this kind of, um, weird interactions between the

characters where like everything changes because they come into contact with like all this new information and the speed of that information and how it kind of interesting with their heads. Yeah. I looked it up on rotten tomatoes. Is this it? It’s like corporations encounter sabotage when they try to buy a website. Yeah. Yeah. I’m a big fan of that director, but that movie was definitely

something that I felt like was really important to what I was trying to get at. Like, yeah. Just in terms of being overwhelmed with information on such a daily basis. Yeah. It’s as a, yeah, it’s a constant fucking problem. I think in everyone’s life, like, I sometimes can’t believe that we can handle so much of it. Like that you can like the day ahead today, like it’s just,

I mean, everyone’s every day is just like, it’s a psychotic amount of digestion, like from every angle in every part of your like body and mind. And somehow I was still able to like step out in the sun and like take a breath and like smile and come here. Like we’re all like, we’re so fucking overwhelmed. We’re quite resilient, like shockingly resilient. Yeah. Like Jesus Christ. I don’t know how we’re,

how we’re still managing and still managing to not only like consume all this stuff, but still have the energy to make more and, and in a funny way, like add more. Yeah. Because you’re like, yeah, you’re still creating like, yes, you’re creating almost like a distilled super information object with all of the souls of those hundreds of thousands of images and their

histories. And you’re like, yeah, good on you guys.

Right. Yeah. I actually, um, someone was, I mean, we kind of, we all know this already, but someone, I just, I saw someone recently like talking about the psychology of it and saying like, it’s no wonder and like, you shouldn’t feel guilty for it. Cause it’s just like almost impossible not to be like hooked on something, you know, like, it’s just like, and I think this, this, the scary

thing for me was always like, like how you like need to be on these things, like in a social kind of way. Like, and, and yeah, I don’t know. Like, um, like I realized recently, so Aiden’s been off of Facebook for like, it’s probably since I’ve known you actually. And yeah, I, um, like years and years and like, I was like, fuck, I need to get off of this stupid website. Like they were talking about

how poorly Facebook’s doing. And I was like, oh yeah, why am I still doing this? It never brings me any pleasure to be fair though. It never really brings me any displeasure. Like I go on and I’m like, yep. Okay. Like, and then I get my messages and then I go like, like opportunity costs there. Yeah. True. I guess. Okay. Yeah. I could have been on a better website.

Yeah. It’s true. You could have been running around with a big smile on your face. Oh yeah. Eating a hamburger. Okay. I like those ones better. Yeah. Reading a book.

Huh. Are you reading anything at the moment? Um, yeah, I’m actually, I started this like towards the end of the degree, but I kind of just, like when we were all editing my paper, I just couldn’t, I couldn’t read anything because I was reading my own writing and that wasn’t pleasant. Yeah.

It had to be done, but it’s this book. Um, it’s basically all about, uh, insects and technology and like reading the behavior of insects and also reading like media theory through the lens of insect behavior, which is pretty interesting. Um, so yeah, I’ve like kind of stopped with the

fiction and gone head first back into like the hardcore theory. Yeah. Yeah. You tricked us. You were expecting a story in your life. Yeah. You’re like, ha ha ha. Yeah. I never let. Yeah. Nothing lighthearted. Um, but yeah, no, like I definitely think

doing this course has definitely made me realize how important reading is and how I think, um, that’s also such a calming activity and to get away from like all the information we’re in contact with and just kind of like sit or lie down and focus on one text. Um, even though I do still check my phone

often when I’m reading, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve done that before. It’s like, I’m reading a really lovely book and I like stop the book and check Instagram and then like check it again maybe. And then go back to reading. It’s crazy, but you’re right. You’re so right. 10 more pages and then you can check your phone. Yeah. Books are sick. Books are mad. Yeah. The

official hung up position is that books are like really scary. I was like having a really relaxing night last night, like chilling, had some candles going and there was this like big, like winged insect, like stuck in the corner of my window. And I’m just like, fuck off, dude. Like it was fully ruining, ruining my calm. Yep. That’s like an analogy for like Instagram and technology and

data. It’s like, we are the insects stuck inside a room that we can’t even comprehend. Like we can’t even see the glass, you know, for all the windows. I had this one. Um, that’s my reading of it anyway. It’s pretty dire. Yeah, I know. Exactly. Yeah. It’s right there. Um, this fucking like, I’ve had like three or four visits from the same insect. It’s amazing. It’s

like definitely the same brownish, like grasshopper that like wants to be a locust or something. And it flew in one night and then I like put it outside on the roof. Like I tried to chuck it off the first story. It didn’t land. And then it flew in again this morning. It was like waiting at my front door, like opened my front door in the morning and it leapt inside

right away. Same one. And I threw it out. Yeah. Same one. And then it came back in this afternoon. And then I like, I was like, right. And so I put it in my green coffee mug over here and I walked it down the street. I put it and let it out at the corner. I saw my neighbor on the, like on the way out. I was like, Hey, how’s it going? Like, yeah, they’re

actually like surprisingly social creatures. Um, and they’re incredibly intelligent. Like, but I was thinking before of what you said about like, we’re all kind of hooked on social media and it just made me think like it looks a lot of bees and the behavior of bees and like you know, it just feels like we’re all bees stuck in the hive. Yeah. And we’re all like

kind of led on by the behavior of the person next to us. And we, we kind of just have to follow on. That’s a much neater and truer metaphor. I think like there’s, there’s definitely this like true social stuff. Like I put out this, um, I put out some music yesterday and like all

of my friends were sharing it and it felt like such a supportive, like beautiful, like community activity focused on me. Like, hell yeah, that’s cool. But, but yeah, it was just like this amazing gesture of like love and support. And I was like, Whoa, like that’s why I’m on these fucking things. Sometimes you get these really special moments. I don’t know. Are you bothered about beauty? Cause I think your works are quite beautiful.

Yeah. I mean, I think audiences in some sense, like from what I have reckoned with, I feel like a lot of people want to be spoon fed and I don’t want to be spoon fed some of the time, obviously some of the time everyone wants to be spoon fed, but like, I don’t want the work I make to be spoon

feeding people. Like I want, if anything, for them to kind of have to meet the work halfway and like do some legwork in order to unpack it. Because I think otherwise it’s just lazy in a way. Like I think obviously there’s definitely a high value for things that have an aesthetic beauty to them.

And I think that’s important. And I think everyone needs to experience that in their life on whatever level it is that they receive that. But I don’t think it’s entirely helpful with where the world is at the moment to just kind of make really placid things that are just easily digestible

and not kind of drive home any point that has like a bearing on the incredibly heavy and pressing things that everyone’s going through. It’s hard. It’s hard. It’s always, it always conflicts as well. Cause then sometimes I get work that is all like, you know, the other side of that extreme. Like it’s all whatever it’s all

takes and it’s all criticism and it’s all heavy and it doesn’t have anything like you just walk past it, you know, cause there’s nothing to grab onto. There’s nothing for you to grab onto as a human being. Like, it’s just like you suck and the world sucks and fuck you. And you’re like, okay, well, how do I, why would I stop in front of this? Cause I’m not going to just like flagellate myself.

No, no sir. So I guess like anytime you’re trying to like sell a work or get someone to see it or get someone to buy a ticket to something, you kind of have to be bothered about beauty, but it’s always been, you know, like people that are into art, artistic people, weird people, you know, like huge part of the culture

is enjoying the hard stuff. Like in every subculture that I can think of, people put in the work and they enjoy the hard movies, the hard music, the hard books. Like that’s almost like what subcultures are. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Are you a part of any subcultures that like we’re not aware

of? Um, uh, not that I subscribe to. If people want to like ascribe one to me, then they can go for it. But I can’t think of any, like, unless you can’t, unless you count artists as a subculture, um, which is kind of how it feels actually in this country a lot of the time. But, um, yeah,

I mean, I definitely agree with what you were saying about like, uh, being involved in seeing works that have that kind of sterile kind of quality to them and like, you know, take themselves too seriously. Like, I think I, I try to make work that is like in between that kind of space where

there is a playful and absurd kind of element, but it’s also talking about things that I feel like are really important ways to kind of engage or digest the world that we’re all living in in some sense. Yeah. Cool. Australian scene. Yeah. I was, I was going to ask like, like, cause we,

we definitely have our own opinion about this, but like, can you give us your own, like, um, like vitals report, like a health checkup on the Australian art scene? Like where, where, where do you see us at? Oh, I think I’d probably get into too much trouble if I did that. Um,

I don’t, we can cut it. We can cut it out. Well, don’t say anything that you wouldn’t want because I won’t know what you want to be cut out. I would love to hear about that. That’s all I’m Yeah. We might, well, after the episode, we might get you to answer that fully, but is there anything that you can say like on air to our listeners? You know, you obviously, you, you don’t have a super

like positive, um, opinion about something to do with it. Um, I definitely think that, you know, on the whole, it needs to be taken out of the hands of like quite conservative, rich benefactors and put into the hands of the actual artists and also make way for a lot more

space for like young and emerging and mid-career artists to kind of show the work they want and not kind of be shuffled around into some clean institutional context that, you know, serves the people with deep pockets. Well said. I’ll put it that way.

Yeah. That’s, that’s our opinion too, basically. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was really heartening seeing a lot of the work at like, um, the show that you were in and the one on last, uh, last Thursday. Um, like it just, it felt like there was all this energy, you know, in the, in, at least in the students of art, like this, this like bountiful energy, which was really cool to see, you know,

but yeah, like you, we see these galleries, like we won’t name drop, but it’s like a shop, you know, more than like a real space for people. Yeah. Like we’re saying to go and be challenged and, and to like get wound up about something. Or even to like breathe. We’re in, I’ve forgotten which gallery it was, but we were in there and it

was like, we were like, there was something on the floor or something. Like it was like a rug. It was like a big rug. And I kind of think like, yeah, okay. If the work is like, it’s like a floor work or like your work, like literally a bench or something. And it’s like really inviting you. Like this rug took up like the entire room. There was no way to be in the room without being on the rug. And the rug was also in front of like another work. So everything is telling

you like stand on this rug and like sitting on the rug. And there was also like a big dog in the gallery that was like on the rug, like slobbering on the rug and the gallery. Well, I don’t think she was like, I don’t know if she was the gallerist or something was like, get off the fucking rug. Like it’s been sold or something. And I was like, you know, but they have their own functions.

Like I felt like you can kind of, I don’t know, almost like not pillage those spaces, but you can like see some really polished work or whatever. I don’t know. Yeah. But it’s tough. They’re tough spaces. They’re not for people. Yeah. We felt like we were outsiders in that, in that particular gallery. And yeah, like, I like, I like what you say. It’s like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a sort

of library in that sense that you can go in for free, you know, and see, yeah, something that let’s say, I mean, for one, I could never afford to have, you know, but also like maybe some, some like, you know, um, artists who’s been doing it for 30 or 40 years, you know, and they’re from Portugal or something, whatever. That’s, that’s cool. Like, I like that, but yeah, exactly what

you’re saying. Like if it, if, if it’s at the cost of all of these things that seem like really basic stuff for yeah, emerging mid-career artists, people who are in art school, it’s like, I would rather take the art school students like any day, you know, there’s so much more connected to the stuff that is in our lives and that matters to us, you know. People need to buy their work though as well,

right? Like fundamentally, like it’s a bit scary to think of, I imagine, I don’t really know, it’d be cool to get your take, Corey, about like, you know, the, the career thrust of like an artist in school and in post-grad school. And then like, am I wrong in thinking that that could be like the peak for a lot

of kids? Cause you’re fully immersed in it. You’re fully kind of, you’re like the whole entire world around you in for those, that time is like, you know, validating you and giving you a lot. And then after that, like you get into whatever this world is where art is, yeah, tiny, you know, from a market perspective. So it’s like, yeah, I don’t know. I guess that’s a scary, a scary thing.

Cause it’s like all that, it’s no longer a sustained system or like a self-sustaining system, right? Like the art world after school. Now it’s just like at the behest of capital. I don’t know. Yeah. I can just jump in and say like, I mean, there is some sort of like, like it’s not a free energy

device, you know, going to art school. Cause there is definitely this like monetary input to the system. So like, that’s true. That’s what you’re paying for. That’s true. But yeah, your, your thoughts on that, Corey? Yeah. I mean, having just finished, like, I definitely feel like I, I don’t have an anchor anymore. And like, obviously there’s a big sense of like, what do I do now? And like,

what do I need to do and what’s the right thing to do and how do I make this work? Um, like I did just move into a new studio, which is like great because it’s in my friend’s garage. So I don’t have to pay for it, which is like fantastic. But it’s like, you know, there’s so many other kind of hoops you have to jump through, like in terms of putting together shows and like so many

things, like ideally I’d like to go overseas and do a residency or something just to experience like what it’s like to be in a different place, first of all, but also what it’s like to be in a place that maybe has a different value when it comes to people that make art and the types of art that

they make. I mean, there was definitely like, there is definitely a whole kind of commercial push, especially around the grad shows to kind of like sell. And if you sell, you’ve, you’ve made a success of yourself. And I don’t really subscribe to that kind of idea. If anything, I wanted to sell things

so I didn’t have to go through the pain of storing everything. Um, um, so yeah, that would have been ideal because that’s just a pain of having to store everything now. But like, again, like it’s nice that I get to hold on to like quite a few things and I can show them again in a different context or the

way I wanted to show them in the first place. Um, but yeah, no, I also think that, yeah, for some people, it is kind of like the beginning and the end at the same time, because it can be really tough out there. And I think like, luckily for me, I think I formed really good bonds with my supervisors

and a lot of people, um, that I met going through NAS. Um, so I definitely think like, I feel like I myself have a pretty good support system in that way. It’s just hard for, uh, people to access that if they’re not in the right headspace or if they don’t have the right living situation and whatnot.

Yeah. I think we better start wrapping it up soon. Um, but before you go, we would love to know if you have any like upcoming, like, uh, shows, uh, first of all. Um, and if you also like, uh, if you have any, uh, tips on like new galleries or new artists in Sydney that we should be aware of,

like emerging people. Um, so I have hopefully a show happening soon that was meant to happen in the lockdown. Um, and that’s across institutional show, uh, show between NAS and SCA and COFA students. So it’s quite a big show. Um, yeah, that would, uh, have happened in July, but hopefully it’ll be

happening within the next few months. It’s just kind of going through a few logistical things at the moment. Um, so if, if, and when that happens, I’ll definitely be posting about it. And in terms of galleries, I would say people should definitely check out a gallery called Schmick, which is in

Chinatown. It’s like right in the heart of Chinatown. It’s like on the top floor of all these massage parlors that you can walk up the stairs off and maybe get a massage before or after you’ve seen some art. Um, and I think they’ve, they’ve had a little break for a while, but I think their next show opens on the 24th of this month. Yeah. Um, so yeah, definitely check that out.

That’s a great recommendation. We’re definitely going to check that out. Yeah. Nice one. Cool. Thank you so much, Corey. It was a pleasure. Well, thanks for, thanks for having me. It was really fun. All right. See you later. See you. See you, Corey.

Bye.

Show notes

This week we chat to Corey Black about his practice, what he's been reading, the social nature of insects and way more than i can fit in this description Corey Black's last show was the NAS postgrad show. See him on IG @orfyn  We are on IG @hungup.au