2.8 Fashion - Pants, Sneakers, Soft Power online at Firstdraft

Transcript

Alright, first off we’re gonna do a fit check. Alright, okay I’m wearing a fresh new haircut. Mm-hmm. Nice short curls. Yeah, looks good. No jewelry. Yeah. Vintage blue t-shirt Durango from Depop. Mm-hmm. It’s got like a guy cycling down a hill. Yeah, with a neat like 80s graphic like outdoorsy vibes.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then I got on some cotton-on shorts. Oh, cotton-on. With the, um, what do you call the thing that like ties? A drawstring. With the drawstring pulled out. Oh, okay. Because that serves no function. You don’t fuck with that? No, it just, there’s no need. Yeah, okay, yeah. Elastic only. Yeah. And they’re like kind of short.

Yeah. And then all the way down my leg to some like Navy Bond socks. Yeah, it kind of just stopped me there. They’re vanishingly short. Yes. They’re beautiful. Yeah, yeah. They’re super short. They’re like footy short. Yeah, yeah. They’re awesome. You can see my whole leg. Yeah. And then, yeah, the blue socks. Yeah. And then, drumroll please. And then the shoes. Do you know those shoes?

Aiden’s got the hyper crocs on. Yes. He’s got, what are they called? Merrill Hydro marks. They’re, they’re beautiful. They’re so nice. They look like that subreddit where people are afraid of holes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Tryptophobia or something. That’s it. Yeah. Yeah. They’re really cool. They’ve got this like flamey thing happening. Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of like flame, but also kind of like water. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It’s a fundamental piece. I like it. Yeah. And Aiden wears them with the band facing forward for quick access and removal. Something spills on my foot. I can quickly get my foot out. Yeah. It’s hot oil you can get out real quick. Exactly. Yeah. Cool. I like them. They’re chefy. Yeah. They’re utilitarian. Yeah. But also in true Aiden fashion, they’re very contrarian. They’re like, fuck your shoe ideals.

Yeah. Well, I never really have had like ugly shoes before. Do you know what I mean? Like I’ve always kind of been scared and you were mentioning it to me at one point, like we should buy like some scary clothes or something or some like ugly clothes. Right. Right. We should freak some people out. Yeah, exactly. And I don’t even think I’m there yet, but I really like that these are, and I don’t think they’re that shocking. It’s probably like the most shocking thing I own. Yeah. I think so.

And it’s really fun to wear like ugly clothes. Yeah. Sometimes it’s cool. Like what have I worn that’s ugly? I don’t know. That leather jacket’s kind of ugly. Yeah. Okay. There you go. It’s like a father jacket. I’m not wearing it right now. It would go with this fit perfectly though, because it’s like stepdad vibes. Yeah. It’s like a stepdad with one earring and he like shows you in excess when you’re like eight.

Go on, man. What do you wear? I’m wearing, start from the top. I’ve got fresh new, like, well, not fresh, but like short hair, which people keep commenting on. Makes you look younger. Makes you look younger. Makes you look very like sweet and boyish. It’s like you shaved your head like a couple months ago, right? Exactly. It was like two months grown in. I think so. Yeah. And I’ve like, for all the time, I’ve never seen you with this short hair before.

It’s amazing. I feel so speedy and, and a hyper. Pretty cool. And then under my Aussie shirt, band shirt, I’ve got this like route 66, like cowboy belt with like hexagon, fridly hexagons on it. And then my favorite pair of jeans in the world, which I’ve had to stitch up a few times. I don’t know what they are. What are they? They’re like Jean Co. jeans.

Show me about. What are they? They’re like jeans, West jeans. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. They kind of look a bit like Levi’s, right? They’re like Levi’s. They’re like button up jeans. Oh shit. Jeans West. Yeah. Jeans West. I don’t know if that’s a shop anymore. It’s like looking at my label. Yeah. It says cool star. Cool star. That’s it. The star is like a star. The A is a star. Yeah. So I got those. They, uh, they fall really beautifully. Nice baggy jeans. And then right at the bottom, we got my 95 Air Maxes, which I got on Depop too.

In like what? What’s that color? Like tan. In like, yeah. Again, stepfather tan. Yeah. They’re really cool. Yeah. I love these shoes. They’re so common. This is also like, your first weird pair of shoes. This is my first comfortable pair of shoes. True. I was like a Doc’s guy before. Probably one of your weirder pairs of shoes as well. True. These are my most outlandish shoes today. They’ve got like, yeah, one of those things in the heel. They’ve got like the bubbly. The bubbles. Yeah. Yeah. It was funny. You know, I never told you this, but I actually saw those floating around on Depop for like a month or two. What? Before I got them? Before you got them. No way. I was like, should I get those? No shit. You saw the same ones? The exact same ones. It’s like we matched with the same person. Yeah, exactly. And I went on the date. You’ve got bigger feet, so.

They wouldn’t have fit me. You know what they say. Yeah.

Hey, I’m Matt. I’m Aiden. And you are listening to Hung Up. This week, we’re talking about fashion. In case you didn’t get the hint. All things fashion. Clothes? Clothing? Yeah. What else are we going to talk about? Well, I think it would be fun to talk about fashion in relation to contemporary art. Right.

Like, and that’s such a cool question because it’s like, you know, everyone knows like artists are fashionable. You know, people dress up to go to shows like weird fashion and like being into contemporary art are like super linked. Yeah. But then there’s all like also all these like weird tensions. Like, you know, I was saying before, like contemporary art is kind of can be like socialist and you can be like a poor student, but you couldn’t really be like that and be at like a runway show or like, you know, wearing some really expensive shoes.

So they’re like friends, but also like they kind of hate each other or something. Yeah. So true. Contemporary art kind of has more like, what would you call it? Like intellectual status sometimes than fashion, you know? Totally. They kind of steal each other’s homework though. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Well, let’s, let’s start with one thing that you said, like artists fashion. Like what, what do people wear to openings?

It’s not like you’re going to a runway show and it’s not like you are going to the pub or even like an expensive gig. It’s like its own type. It’s its own, it’s got its own level of dress, dressed upness. Um, I, and like a lot of people kind of ironically underdo it, right? It’s like, I’m just wearing my fucking painted jeans and like, I’ve got a fucking Nike hoodie on like guilty.

But, um, yeah, he’s looking at the Ramesh Instagram page. Fuck yeah. Oh man. He’s so cool. We want, we want to get Ramesh on the show, dude. If your name is Ramesh. If your name is Rams underscore deep 69 on Instagram and you’re listening to this. We got to get you on the show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We’ll, uh, our, uh, we’ll get our agent to talk to your agent.

Anyway, I think, I think that’s a really good point. Like what you were just saying, like, it’s pretty funny. It’s like, yeah, like I’m, I think I’m going to like a wedding soon. And like, that’s like, yeah. Cool. Is this up the coast? Uh, I don’t know where this is. It’s got like a secret Bogan family that he doesn’t talk about. You can’t say that. I got a bum’s wedding. It’s her secret Bogan family.

All right. Editor, cut that out. That would have been cool. Cut that out. Uh, anyway, it was funny. It was funny. Anyway, what I wanted to say, like, I think that’s a cool point that like an art opening is one of these, like, yeah, uh, yeah, exactly. As you said, like, it’s its own event to get dressed up for. It has its own like, um, expectations, but maybe more so than any other event.

It’s like way more flexible. Like if you’re going to like a nice restaurant, like it’s pretty simple, like wear like a button up or something like, or whatever, like don’t wear like a sloppy stained hoodie and like whatever you do, like you’re going to be okay. Right. Yeah. Like kind of the same at a wedding funeral. Like, you know, like it’s pretty like well-defined the boundaries of like what you can wear.

For sure. And like wedding and funeral being the most like thin, you know, room for, especially in the traditional ones, room for movement. True. Um, but yeah. Or like, and then I guess what, what do you go down? Like theater or like a nice restaurant. Now you’re like somewhere else or like, I don’t know. Going to a gig. Like a party or something.

Yeah. Going to a party is just anything basically. Right. Well, well maybe not just anything. There’s dress up parties, which we’re not talking about. We’re talking about like. No, even normal parties, not in anything. It actually depends so much. What if it’s like your really rich friends party and you like know a bunch of like hot rich people are going. You got to fucking get, I wouldn’t wear these pants. These are my favorite pants.

It looks so good on me, but I don’t think I would wear them. Unless you wanted to make a statement, right? True. I’d be like, I’m wearing these ironically. Yeah. Or like, you’re like, I’m like signaling that I’m different to you or whatever. True. True. Yeah. I own less than you. I’m mad about it. I own less than you. And like, you should feel bad about that or something. You should feel guilty about that. You should feel guilty.

They should. Well, you have no integrity because I’m in the room. That’s awesome. You know. I’m an integrity vacuum. Yeah. Fucking sucked you off, dude. I’ve literally got all the integrity. That’s not how I meant to say that. There’s no integrity left for anyone else in this room. I fucking drove a truck today, bro. How long can I use that as like a signifier of anything?

You’re going to need to do one soon. I got to get an even truckier job. I’m just going to go work down a hole somewhere. Working a mine shaft. The mine shaft is status-y again, right? You make money. Oh, right. True. Fuck. There’s no way out of this, dude. I’m stuck. You better go work at like, I don’t know, like Dean’s or something. Or work at Woolies. I was going to say Woolies, but that was just, isn’t there like one guy like we know through

the internet that like works at Kohl’s and like raps it? He’s like, posts his like Kohl’s stories. Yeah. We won’t say who it is, but you know who you are. That’s like so hard to come back from, though. True. Yeah, it’s true. How do you maintain cool points and you work at Kohl’s? Well, I don’t know. It’s like part of the cool. You’re at Kohl’s, though? Like that’s so, like anywhere else.

I think like they, should we say he thinks it’s like cooler than it actually is. It’s part of the whole like package, you know. I even get it. Like a bottler, it kind of fits more into that. It’s like pretending to like VBs. Yeah, right. Yeah, no, I get that that’s the point. I actually like VBs, though.

So that’s different. I like VBs, though. Yeah, but that’s different. That is different. Yeah. That’s been me since I was 16. People are like, you’re really pretentious. But, you know, I’m pretty sure you genuinely like these things. So you’re all right. You’re all right with me. Anyway. So what do you wear to an, you wear like, you kind of wear art to an art opening.

You’re like, I’m going to be surrounded by beautiful works of art or like erotic works of art or something cool. And it’s going to be, everyone’s going to be looking at each other and at the things. And we’re all going to be getting drunk together. Like, you know, you kind of want to wear, you want to wear something that expresses you and like, you know, maybe like someone can comment on to like meet someone, you know.

It just, it feels like cool place for an outfit. You know, it’s like in a gallery is kind of the best place to show an outfit. Really. For sure. Nice lighting. Everyone’s a bit pissed and like, you know, feeling smoochy and friendly maybe. 100%. I think, yeah, because of that, whatever that space is, whatever the crossover that’s happened between like fashion and like pushing that.

And like Ramesh is a good example of it. Like a very serious artist, you know, who gets taken seriously, like gets big shows, sells a lot of work, but kind of dresses like crazy. Like, you know, you know what I mean by crazy? Like big colorful shirts and like crocs and like long curly hair.

He fucking wins the art gallery dress up. Making a statement like all times. I remember seeing like the fellowship exhibition like ages ago and I think there was like, he had on one of these like button ups with like dollar signs all over it. And just like to the point you were making, like, I think it is cool that, you know, an art opening could be a place where you’re allowed to like push it a bit.

Like you could wear all your ugly fits or like things that are like on the borderline. True. And that would be like a good place to like try it out or something. True. If you just go as like a regular trendy person, you’re kind of like being shy at one of those things. Maybe. Yeah. We haven’t been to one in a while. Hey, we should go to one as official ambassadors of the podcast.

Yeah. We’ll have a little stall at one. That would be really fun. Pants. I’ve got pants here. I’m just like pants. You want to talk about pants? I want to talk about pants. Pants are my favorite item of clothing. Shoes I have a lot of difficulty with because I feel like none of them suit me. I should just walk around barefoot or something and shaking his head.

I love pants and I have such a hard time finding them. Like my sort of overarching pants aesthetic right now is baggy. I would say the skinniest pair of pants I have now is work dickies, which I just use at work. But everything else is just like straight down, like ruler on either side of the thing.

And I noticed that that’s kind of what’s in trend right now. I was going for like early 2000s, which I think is really hot right now, right?

Where are all the baggy pants in secondhand shops? I just go and I look through all the fucking pants. They all end in a thin taper at the bottom, which just doesn’t make any sense. Like it doesn’t make any sense at all to me. Those things will be flying off the shelves right now. So you want to comment on that? Well, like in my head either, like people are getting there before you, you know, because you’re just not quick enough.

I do get there at like 10 a.m. Yeah, like once a week, right? These people are getting there on like a Monday at 9. True, true. It’ll be quick. Or maybe it’s just the type of people like, is it what? Who’s dropping shit off at Vinny’s? Well, I don’t really go to Vinny’s that much. I try to go to the like curated ones, you know. Swapping shit. Well, Vinny’s would be sick if I like had money and no job.

You know what I mean? It’s like. Had money and no job. Yeah. So you don’t have to be anywhere at like 9 in the morning. You just hit up all the Vinny’s on a Monday or whatever it is. That’d be sick.

Yeah. So you’re going to like nice vintage shop and you can’t find any like big wide-legged pants, even though everyone’s wearing wide-legged pants. It’s a bit of a fucking. And you’re like caught in this loop. That’s what I’m saying. I just want more wide-legged pants like everyone else. I see them on the street every day. I know they’re coming from somewhere. And you know they’re coming from somewhere.

Fuck, dude. Are people buying them new? I’ve never. I haven’t bought a pair of new pants. Actually, no, that’s not true. I bought some brand new work dickies from fucking Slaverzon from Amazon in the States because they didn’t sell that model here. And I was like, they’re so beautiful. I need a pair. Can I say that on the podcast that I shopped at Amazon?

Yeah, whatever. Everyone does it. Sure. I don’t know if you can say the S word. Yeah. Okay, so that’s pants and baggy pants. But I just wanted to talk one more about a specific part of pants. So we had this like theory that like the hem of your pants, it outperforms its like physical

size in terms of how important it is for your outfit. But Aiden’s got the opposite like pants hem to me today. He’s wearing like footy shorts. Like something might slip out in a sec. And I’m wearing like very carefully measured pants, which are like just above the laces.

Like they just flirt with the laces. Like that’s where I want them, you know. And I’m always hitching my belt up to the day. Check myself in the reflection. I’m like, where are the pants at? I don’t care what my face looks like, dude. It’s all about the pants. What the hell is going on with pant hems? We learned they’re called, it’s called the break. It’s where the pants break. I don’t know. I don’t have like, I don’t think I have a bunch that I can like point to.

I’m sure like you would, or it’d be cool if we had like some pictures up. But I guess what’s interesting is in terms of like that moment where like you read someone like from across the room, like there’s this guy that skates past like my street in the mornings and he’s like maybe 30, like straight up like Aussie white guy. And he’s like going to the office and he’s riding on like, are they called penny boards?

Like yellow skateboard. And he’s wearing like, you guys have a full image. He’s in like chinos, like those brown, like what are the boots that the politicians wear? Whoa. You mean like Chelsea boots, like RM Williams. Yeah, exactly. You know, this guy with the chino and the RM Williams and like the button up shirt and he’s on a penny board. What shape are the pants?

They’re skinny pants, right? Yeah. They’re like very slim. They’re not like full on skinny. They’re slim, but they’re like cuffed and like just above the boot. They’re turned up. No, it’s like a multiple roll. Right. It’s like a thin, like a super, like 2000 and I don’t know, like 10, like, you know, the thin, like one inch cuff.

Yeah. Right. So it’s been, he’s rolled them up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He’s rolled them up. Yeah. I’ve just had a demonstration on my leg. And I just think like, I don’t know, there was a point where like I would never leave the house without cuffing my pants. Me too. And now I would never leave the house with a cuffed pant. I know. I would be mortified. Right. It would be so scary.

In my worst dreams. And it’s just funny to think that like the whole outfit could depend. It’s like the fucking William Carlos Williams poem, you know, so much depends on a red wheelbarrow. Like now so much depends on like the last eighth of your pants. It’s so true. Yeah. I remember being like staunch roller. I was like, I’m not going anywhere showing the bottom of these pants.

No, sorry. I was like, what was my thinking? I was like, I had to show off the whole, uh, 16 whole Doc Martens or whatever. It just looked better at that time. Yeah, I guess. It did. And it’s funny because whenever we talk about this. Maybe it made sense at the time. You’re right. It did. It’s like, it’s this moment. Like I almost see like the brainwaves, like going from like human A, like reading the pants

on human B and like, it’s getting filtered through the fashion, like the trends. True. And like, by the time your like eyes, like sense the pant, if it’s like, you know, five years ago, you’re like, damn, fucking sick cuff job. Like that’s like, you tick the box. Yeah. Right. You’re like, dope. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s the same like eyes and the same leg, like 10 years on.

Yeah. Yeah. Everyone shakes their head. Everyone shakes their head now. So true. It’s crazy. Very enlightening pants chat. Um, yeah, that’s, I could probably talk about pants a little bit more. Can we talk a little bit about pockets? Yeah. Let’s talk about pockets. Cause you have a pair of like, like your baggiest pants. We were at the, uh, Hernandez show.

Yeah. Like ages ago. And I was looking through my old photos and the picture of you and they’re these big gray cargo pants. And like, you’re such a slim boy. And they’re like, you know, you could fit two mats in those pants. Like they’re fucking massive. Yeah. Me and Glenn could fit in one of, in each, in each hand leg. And then when you’re just wearing a t-shirt, like it’s like really emphasizes that silhouette.

Yeah. Totally. Like little skinny top and then huge cargo pants. I’m still sort of playing with that, uh, relationship between how skinny the T and how baggy the pants. It fits within. It’s pretty cool. It totally fits within that, um, 2000s. Like, yeah. Like corn concert. Yeah. Thing that I’m sort of doing.

Or even just like any new metal or even raves in the nineties. Like that’s kind of where we’re at. Yeah. Those are kind of extreme though. Like that silhouette. Those are extreme. When I look in that with that, just like if you’re wearing a jacket, it’s less pronounced, but with like a very slim top and a very big pants, it’s pretty extreme. I remember seeing the photos after that show being like, maybe have I, has technology gone

too far? Yeah, totally. It’s fucking big, bro. Those, so those I also got on Depop for nothing, like eight bucks or 10 bucks. Oh, really? And then I had them tailored because they were like six inches too wide for me. So I think maybe in that process, it just like, um, exaggerated the bagginess. Yeah. Do you ever use those cargo pockets?

Cause I don’t think we said, but they also have fucking massive proper cargo pockets on them. Yeah. Those, those pockets are too big. And that’s why I ended up with the Geneco jeans, which are like massive, like, um, pockets, like, but they’re, they sort of slim. They fit onto the leg very slimly. Um, I use those pockets for the mask, my face mask.

True. True. Yeah. It’s a good spot for, I started doing that while I was going out the other week and I realized I kept getting into like the mask situation. Cause like sometimes you need it. Sometimes, you know, I just stuffed four in the cargo pocket and that was for like a couple days. That was like the weekend. I love it. And like, if anyone needed one, I got one. It’s just the, a mask is literally the worst thing to put in your pocket.

It’s like, it tangles on your keys. It’ll even tangle on your phone or your wallet. Something smooth. It sucks. Dude, you know the fucking hairdresser? Cause I had to wear my mask. She had this pretty sick trick. She put a comb behind my neck. Cause you needed to like, you know. Oh, she needed to get there. She needed to like trim above my ears where the mask straps were.

So you put a comb on like the back of my neck and like put the straps of the mask on the teeth of the comb. That’s so clever. So she could get to my ears. That’s awesome. She’s been dreaming of that all lockdown. It was really cool. Maybe that was like day one. What the fuck are we going to do? It was really cool. I’d love to know. Yeah. I wish you, I wish I had a photo. While we’re on the topic of pockets, something that I’ve noticed myself feeling like self-conscious

fashion about is like things like how much stuff is in my pockets. If there’s just a phone in my pocket and it looks like this, wait, I’ll demonstrate to you. If there’s just a phone in this pocket and it’s doing one of these ones where you put it in, you put it in portrait and then it falls down landscape. And then you’re walking down the street with this like oblong projection.

So it’s just, he’s like made me, he’s made me put it away, get a picture that I’m terrified of people seeing that. So I just started putting my phone in the back pocket. Oh, it’s hilarious. Pick pockets. This phone cannot be unlocked. Okay. So don’t even think about it. So what are we looking at right now? You tell me. We’re looking at like modern, um, Lowe’s slash Bunnings slash work wear, like, but in 2021,

it’s got this like distinctive new membrane that we’ve crossed over into. So they are functional work wear pants. They’ve got like knee pads cause you’re on your knees, you know, underneath the car or whatever. They got big pockets for your fucking screwdriver and your spanner set and like a million other things. Um, they’re probably made with really tough.

Um, oh yeah. These are the DeWalt ones. They’re made with like tough canvas or some clever. It’s probably not even canvas. It’s like a clever polyester thing, which is really durable. I’ve got a pair of Dickies that are made of that stuff. And it’s like, I don’t know. It feels like I could just slide down a tarmac street on it and they’d be fine. Um, but there is this kind of, so I’ve heard, I follow a guy on YouTube called AVE and, and

most of his content was like, um, him disassembling drills and like rattle guns and shit. And he keeps commenting on how they all look like toys from like a Transformers film. And this kind of has that sort of like young boy, like playing with the Tonka truck vibe. I think the cut is very modern and baggy and cool.

The thing is when I went to Lowe’s to look for a pair of these, they were all like carrot jeans. They were all tapered down to a thin thing. Yeah. But the ones that I got from the States, they also, they go straight down. Like these DeWalt ones we’re looking at. Yeah. It’s interesting how like at a certain point, like, I don’t know that that workwear stuff

has always been that wider cut. And that was like out of sync with the like skinnier, like straighter fit. And then like the trend came around to get baggier and the workwear shit just stayed the same. Right. And they just like met back up. Ah, good question. I mean, I want to also just add like these DeWalt workman’s pants that we’re looking at,

they are in the actual for tradies workwear zone. Like they’re not just, you know, like car heart. This is on tooledup.com. Yeah, fucking up it is. They’re not just like, you know, playing at that. And I’ve got some pants that are very comfortable that do that, but they’re probably, they wouldn’t

last nearly as long as these, for example. Yeah. Um, yeah, to answer your question though, I, I, I think like there might actually be a bit of a continental difference going on here because all the photos of fucking like, just I follow a lot of, yeah, like redneck dudes in the States and like very few of them have like skinny ass jeans.

It’s like workwear pants that go straight down. And I think it’s like you, you’re bending down and you don’t want to feel restricted. Like that silhouette was never had any like functional, like, you know, thing. It was all aesthetic appeal. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Um, I just wanted to show now, cause I’ve always loved these pants and I’ve seen them

like, um, you know, with paint splattered all over them and like all stained and they’re like well worn. Like it’s kind of hard to see them like this cause they’re like so flat and perfect. But once you see them on like a body and I guess, yeah, I don’t know, this workwear thing has always kind of been something that we’ve both been like really interested in and like everyone has been really interested in like Carhartt being like a huge example of

like a transition from like genuine workwear to just like full on whatever the fuck it is now. Yeah. Some other, some other thing. Yeah. People love pointing out that like in the States it’s actually workwear and over here it’s like playing at that. Yeah. Well, it’s like the, well yeah, playing at, or it’s just this street thing. But yeah, in that, in that vein and like one of the like, I don’t know, things that I kind

of got into like in the last six months has been the whole like gawp thing, which is like totally related to this, right? It’s like when you start, it’s kind of like mixing business and pleasure in your fashion. Like, you know, something that is like functional becomes aesthetic, becomes functional and like everything can be like at once pragmatic and beautiful.

Do you want to just for the listener that doesn’t know what gawp means? You want to just spell that out? It, uh, stands for good old raisins and peanuts. And it’s like this whole aesthetic of, um, I don’t know, kind of like active, like trendy ass active wear. Like I think like, yeah, like, um, Salomon is kind of like a good exemplifier of this.

Like you’ll see it, like the new Salomon sneakers will be all over like, um, like skate shops and like kind of like the more expensive, like, I don’t know, subtypes and like above the clouds, Inku and that. And they’re originally just straight up trail running shoes. Yeah. And like a few years ago, there would have been just, you know, pretty much across the

board considered pretty ugly. Yeah. You know, totally. But now you can find them on like a super rich boy, like Instagrams and stuff. Like, yes, totally. I’m showing Aiden my, um, my best GORP core Instagram page. It’s called organiclab.zip. And this guy’s just like on another level.

Like, look at these fucking shoes. He’s got these like basket woven. Yeah. What are the, what does the bottom of that remind you of? What are they called? Um, the sandals. Yeah. It’s like cork sole. Yeah. But yeah. So yeah, all these cool, like, um, yeah, those are really cool. Yeah. So yeah, that’s Nike ACG, which is the brand I just wanted to talk about to finish off the pants sag.

Yeah. But yeah, um, if you look at these now, like we’re looking at basically the same pant. Nike ACG. Smith Summit cargo pants. Those are beautiful. For like twice the price. Well, they’re not the same pants. They’re actually very different functions. Very different functions. But like. Yeah, totally. These are supposed to be like light.

That’s true. Yeah. They’re supposed to like, you know, let air in, but also like keep you warm, but also keep you dry. No, of course. Yes, that is true. I don’t even know what the ACG is, but it’s actually a pretty cool brand. I think they were around in like the eighties or something and they got, went kind of defunct and then kind of came back again. Right. With this new kind of like, like they poked back up now that like this whole like nature

explorer street wear thing has come back, which is pretty cool. Yeah. But you’re right. Like functionally they’re very different, but like, you know, the, the like similarity is obvious. Like these also have these like big cargo pants and like the different colored knee pads. And they just reminded me of like the D waltz, like so hard. Yeah. I really like these. Good comparison to draw though.

Yeah. I would really like that. They’re beautiful. I know. I would like that too. I think they have a gray, which is more beautiful. How can I ever go camping without a pair of these? Dude. If I get spotted out in the wilderness, you know, I got to be looking absolutely fly. I don’t know. I think there’s something, is there something that like suits, like you just said that and like you’re going, well not camping, but kind of.

Yeah. We were going to go camping in Airbnb. Yeah. But it kind of feels like a cool, like maybe like with the weather here and like the vibes, like a cool kind of like tropical, like hot climate kind of thing to like get into this like, yeah, like functional kind of shit. Yeah. Totally. Totally. I think, oh yeah, these zip off at the knee.

Oh yeah. That’s sick. They’re talking to shorts. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. I was in an, uh, what was it called? A decathlon, uh, the other day to, um, get like, like one of those mattresses that you don’t sleep on twigs and rocks and shit. Uh, turns out I’m just going to return that, but we’re not going anymore. But, um, I saw they had like a whole range of, you know, they were doing what Lowe’s was

doing and what like Kmart does, which is like, yeah, they just rip off, you know, what’s cool, but in like crappy way. What was their fucking, they had this really funny, you know how like, um, uh, Kmart’s one is called Anko. I think it’s like the brand that had this really dumb brand. I think it’s called like fall cranks or something stupid like that.

It just made no sense. Like, and then like gotten some like designer to like design it up, like take the crossbar out of the A and shit. I was like, oh yeah, cool, bro. Let’s go off road with these motherfuckers.

Okay. That’s pants. I think we’re, I think we’re, I think we’re good for pants. Pants. Okay.

So after the pants comes, the shoes, everybody knows this. You have to put your pants on first before you can put the shoes on. Sometimes in the hydro mocks, I put my shorts on over the shoes. No. Sometimes. No. These shoes are like, they’re like defy God’s will. They’re made from a single piece of like some kind of cool rubber so you can kind of flex

your toes. It’s true. And they could go through the sock, the short hole. So funny. Yeah. You could like wear those in the shower. Anyway. Oh yeah. We’re talking about shoes. So these are, these are back on the menu.

Let me take one of these off. Let me, let me get a good look at this shit. It might be a bit smelly, but go for it.

They’re like just one piece of plastic. Really? So clever. They’re not slippery. I reckon if you were in a kitchen, these would be slippery. Someone was telling me they look a bit like, yeah, like a fucking, what’s that game? Like oblivion kind of. They have oblivion vibes. This piece. Yes. Totally. That looks like a kind of ancient, like peasant shoe. But that’s kind of cool again.

Like remember Francesca Zack’s stuff? That was like so cool because of the Skyrim connotations. Yes. True. Yeah. Yeah. You won’t catch us complaining about her. No Skyrim connotation will go commented on on this podcast. Yeah. Anyway, so we’re doing a bit of research for this episode and we came across this cool article that was like super timely.

It’s by art critic called Cinziana Ravini. Yeah. Yeah. So the article is called The Zimzum Man, which is like the author is talking about this kind of concept borrowed from Jewish mysticism that says that after God created the world, there was nothing left for him to do but to recede into himself and disappear.

And kind of like coolly setting up this article about Martin Margiela, who’s like this groundbreaking, you know, designer spanning over two decades, did a bunch of cool shit that we’ll get into, kind of like disappeared in 2009 and then has just popped up and is having like a trendy art show in like a pretty fucking highfalutin gallery in Paris.

Yeah. Wow. I didn’t realize. I’m just reading it now. Like no one even knew where he was. That’s so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And like, I’ll quickly kind of, I just give you a summary, but basically the critic concludes that, you know, he could never really live up to what he had done in the fashion world and that the work.

In the art world now. Yeah. In the art world. That’s something that you sort of didn’t say, I think, was that he’s got a show on now in this really posh. I did say that. Oh, you did say that. Okay. Well, fuck me then. That’s one of the first things I said. Okay. Fucking numpty. I said that’s the whole point of that. Anyway. Yeah. Cool. Fuck it. He’s got this show and she kind of is like, he doesn’t really live up to his, um, uh, you

know, fashion reputation. Reputation. Exactly. And also that she finds like the work a little bit dated. Like, can you scroll to the last paragraph? Um, she kind of has these like wry conclusions. Yeah. She’s like, what is his artwork saying about our time? That we are discontent. We already knew that.

That gender is a construction. We knew that too. She’s saying, you know, uh, it’s, it was a bit disappointing and maybe a bit flat, you know, and unimpressive. Um, but my sort of takeaway from this, when you sent this to me, um, today was, you know, just seeing this like art, uh, this, uh, fashion God transcend into the world of like quite posh, uh, contemporary art.

Right. And, um, I think like, I mean, I guess I use the word transcend, but it’s, it’s, it’s a very thin membrane to cross over into sometimes. I think like, uh, especially because of how fashion makes people feel, you know, like I bet you, you know, our parents could get like literally like upset about a piece of clothing that someone was wearing on the street, you know, they’d be like, why the fuck would you wear that?

You know, why? And it’s just like that kind of like, it’s akin to that, like upset feeling when they’re in a modern art gallery and they’re like, you know, my kid could do that or whatever. Um, if we’re talking about shoes, then, um, one of the, uh, like most, uh, what would you say?

Controversial or, uh, iconic shoes of the last, like, you know, hundred years is Margiela’s tabby shoes. Yeah. Um, we were just looking at the like Reebok X tabby shoes and I think they’re beautiful. I think Aiden likes them a lot too. I do.

Yeah. So it’s, it’s cool too. Cause these shoes, um, it’s like a classic kind of chunky, uh, like tan ish leather Reebok. They look a little, like, they look like they kind of come up a bit like on the sides and back. Like it’s not a super low profile. They’re a bit like chunky, like mid, mid length or whatever. And then, yeah, it’s just like kind of a normal Reebok, but then of course with that like classic tabby spit split, which kind of, I mean, it has so much.

It kind of looks like, uh, like it’s got like sci-fi stuff, but basically your big toe goes in one side of the toe box and then there’s like a cutout. And then the rest of your toes are in their own, you know, separated zone. Exactly. But I really liked the socks. So like there’s like the product pictures, like five that you go through.

And then the last one is the Reebok socks. And you can see that those are split as well. Oh yeah. And I actually think, uh, in that other article that the socks came first in the tabby’s like long Japanese history. Uh, of course. Yeah. So that’s the thing is like, these are, um, you know, a reference to a ripoff of, they are about the, um, like ancient Japanese footwear tabby, which like, uh, yeah, as far back as the 15th century, she’s saying.

So now we’re looking at an article by Arabelle Sicardi on a shoe that can truly be called iconic. And can I just say something about like the, the, this article itself, like this is a beautiful article. It’s so cool. Like the typeface and the images, like this is a really nice, it’s like the essence editorial, like we’ll link to it in somewhere in the show notes or on Instagram.

Cause I think it is a really like, you know, we both, it both kind of moved us a lot to see this history presented this way. Like made it feel almost more real for me. Yeah. Like a really awesome way to experience this. It’s a great use of just like simple HTML programming, like beautiful pictures and like good writing, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s so clever. Like just the way that the, um, the layout is done, like this massive spread of the ancient Japanese dudes, you know, samurais. I got two fucking swords and six shoes. And then it’s like back into the fucking Margiela stuff. So if you go up a little bit, those are the ones that I’ve seen on the right. Have you seen those around? Right. So these are the, like the kind of like go-go shoe versions.

I don’t know what they’re called, but they’re like boots. They’re like leather boots. Yeah. And they look very like Star Wars to me. True. Yeah. They’ve got like this kind of sixties sci-fi vibe going on. Totally. I’ve never seen them in person though. I don’t go in those kinds of circles. I think I’ve seen a few of those and I found them like honestly quite shocking. I know the artist has, the author, sorry, Arabelle Sicardi has somewhere in this essay, like these are like polarizing shoes, right?

Oh, she owns a pair of these? Well, yeah, she owns them, but she was saying like, they’re not shoes that you can be apathetic about, right? Right, right. People are going to hate them or love them. Exactly. And it’s funny. It’s like next to the go-go, like, you know, mid-length boots are like a pair of like fucking Nike sandals with the tabby toe. And they just look like, what is it?

These are weird as hell. They look like a- They’re super future. They look like a 1999, like concept car. Yeah, totally. They’re just like bubbly and alien and they’ve got big Velcro elastic straps on them. Weird. I fucking love those sandals, dude. These, would you rather wear? Like, I guess those are kind of coded as like women’s shoes.

Yes. That would be harder to pull off, I guess. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, this is fucking making me want a pair of these shoes. And honestly, before we started looking at this shit, I would probably have thought they were stupid. Right. But they look so good. Yeah. Oh, they’re so good. I’m just looking at this like beautiful pair of like cowboy boots. No, they’re like, they’re like knee high or thigh high leather boots with red stars on them,

but with a beautiful tabby slash down the middle. So cool.

Wow. This is a serious Instagram posting potential. The dress. So cool. No, this guy was a genius. Yeah. I’m really now feeling like, it’s funny because I, I mean, I remember watching like a bit of like fashion stuff when I was a kid, for some reason, like my parents had a, what’s it called? Foxtel.

And one of the channels was just fashion, 24 seven fashion. It was so funny. And I was like perplexed watching like, huh? And it took me like maybe up until today to really like get some kind of a feeling out of it. You know, I always thought it was visually cool. Like, yeah, fair enough. Yes. You’re not supposed to wear it on the street. I get it. But, you know, just seeing this like Margiela show, I’m like, fuck, that’s cool.

This is an old one. It’s from like the eighties. Yeah. It looks like eighties and nineties. Yeah. It’s cool. It’s cool. And I guess I wanted to say something about like, so in the image, in the back of this image, you can see like all the people who are like attending the runway kind of like hidden. And I was thinking as you’re speaking about that, like how much of like fashion, the fashion

scene or whatever you would call this, like high fashion or like runway fashion or whatever, like art fashion is affected by, you know, like the necessary wealth and just the kind of, you know, high, like almost by definition requires like a certain kind of audience or like it comes

with a certain kind of audience, which is just like so memeable. And like, you know, like fucking Baron Cohen’s like Bruno does like a really funny job of like exposing it. Yes. At the same time, like the whole fashion scene is like, you know, culturally constantly satirized, just like the contemporary art scene.

Right. Sure. And like, it’s like kind of super right for that. So, yeah, I don’t know. It’s, it feels like sometimes these scenes get unfairly like punished because you can’t separate like the aesthetic from like the culture and like the mainstream culture, like doesn’t have any time for these. Right. Like, well, it doesn’t have any time.

How about, let me put this to you. Like anything that rich people do for fun. Yeah. Like it deserves to be teased a little bit, you know, just for fun. Like, and you know, like that’s, that has, you know, so much to do with, with this world is like, you know, it’s, it’s fun and it’s like, it’s an outing. It’s a really cool outing for rich people.

And it sort of shows your taste, even just being there, you’re like, I’m so tasteful for being there. So there’s that. Then there’s also all the like models and the artists and the actual designers and the, you know, the, the leaders like Margiela or whoever that really get to express something artful through it, which it’s just like what we were saying about being in a posh

gallery. You know, it’s like, there’s this element of like the everyman tax, like you can have your $8,000 jacket, but I get to look at it too, you know, and I can appreciate it and I can feel something about it, even though I will never even be able to wear it, let alone buy it. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s a really good point. Yeah. It’s interesting. Fashion, fashion, fashion, fashion.

It’s fun to tease stuff like this. Cause it’s, I mean, yeah, I like your take. Like it’s, you know, it’s, it’s so brave and so strange and like, you know, it’s, it’s like, you know, it, it, at once it resists teasing, but it’s so, it’s so easy to tease. Let’s just talk about this, like, um, um, show his, uh, fall winter, 1989, 1989 show.

And I think that as you were saying before, like this is a beautiful piece of writing. Yeah. Totally. And like essay doing, really, really making this, um, feel, I think, as you said, like more artful to us or whatever, like really getting it across what people who love this shit are into. So just know that, know that he had a first show, I guess, summer, 1989.

Uh, and then it goes on his second show for fall winter, 1989 was as scrappy brazen and as beautiful as the first in all the little details. And it too would go down in the fashion history set in a playground on the outskirts of Paris. People scaled the walls to get in and neighborhood children lined the front row cheering for the

models. That’s so cute. I fucking love that. One witness said at a certain point, you couldn’t tell who was a neighbor and who was an editor. Everyone was mixed up and excited to bear witness. The children ended up joining the models down the runway, marching in step with the models recycled, revisited tabby. Raf Simmons, famous dude that we were talking about earlier, snuck in with Walter von Beierendonk

and was moved to tears. Don’t laugh. Don’t fucking laugh, dude. I can’t say his name like that. It’s serious. This is serious. Actually, fuck the last essay. Fuck the last sentence. Okay. Whatever about Raf Simmons? Don’t even say that. Just finish it with the revised tabby.

Yeah. So that’s it. I’ll keep that in because it was funny when I was like, don’t say that. Such romantic theater over a pair of shoes and sheer frayed clothes. Beautiful. Margiela, the traditional idea, change it slightly and our reaction to processing something so familiar and so strange infected us. And then the picture of the tabbies here are also like kind of Star Wars vibes ones, but

they’ve been used and worn. And this is beautiful like pair of feet in used tabbies. Yeah. This is so cool. Like that show, you know, where it’s like, it’s kind of got this bleeding, not like blood, but like that kind of seeping of the margins. Like, you know, children are in on it and the neighbors are just like interested and like,

oh, Aiden’s on the Mass Effect subreddit now. I think he’s got a sick reference coming up. And, um, oh my God, totally dude. Yeah, totally. We’re looking at high tech futuristic tabbies. Um, what was I saying? Yeah. I think you guys get me. You know what I’m saying. Art is cool.

Yes. Art is cool. And I feel like it’s kind of exciting to, yeah, I don’t know. Like, I really want to like read more of this Arabelle’s work and shit. Cause it’s fucking cool. Yeah, totally. I’m going to save this for the post. 100%. Um, yeah. Cool. Yeah. I just love this essay.

And yeah, this is a beautiful essay. I think, I think, yeah, I don’t know. I guess I’m all, I’ve always been fascinated with the, how you, um, consume this shit and how, how significant that can be, like the way you consume it. Our artist of the week is Rosalyn Orlando.

Uh, this is part of the first draft soft power show, which is a online show. We had a look at a couple of other things. There was a cool game, which was fun. And a couple of like articles and digital writing things and some video works. This is the one that we picked out for you though.

Um, Rosalyn Orlando’s, uh, what’s it called? Evasion score. Um, it’s called evasion score. And, uh, we just really liked the, uh, sort of, um, premise of it. Do you want to run us down what that is? Yeah. So the work, I guess, has a few forms. One of them is like a score.

Yeah. So like the over overall conceit of the work is that, uh, the artist has created like a score and a key. Um, and basically, I guess you would probably have the words for it, but it basically gives you like a bunch of ways of speaking, um, you know, and ways to affect your voice so

that you can like disrupt smart speakers, like an Amazon Alexa or like a Siri or whatever. Yeah. You evade like, you know, translation by them. So, um, yeah, it’s like, um, one of the phrases that we liked was like, um, yeah, it’s like, what am I going to do with $700 of MDMA? You know, it’s like kind of a bit red hot for the smart speaker, you know?

Yes. Um, there’s, there’s that thing also about like ads, not just like police, you know, law enforcement shit. Can you like, can you as a musician read the score and perform a line? Oh, okay. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I wanted to say like this work, like there’s this, there’s really nice score and key. Yeah. And I guess the idea is that it’s kind of like a language, right?

Yeah. That you could, it’s kind of like slang. Yeah. Fucking. Totally. Yeah. Slang to a man. So feds don’t know what. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of thing. So true. Yeah. Um, so that’s like the one, um, what would you call it? Like, uh, version of the work is the score. And then also on the website, you can see like Roslyn performing it for a few minutes.

So I do really like these kinds of works and it’s a nice like, um, tool in like the performance art kit to give you like, you know, not only is there a performance, a single instance of a performance, but there can also be like instructions or, you know, for the audience to go on and like create, um, instances of that performance.

So cool. Yeah. So much cooler than just like, yeah, flat gallery work, which we’re beginning to get a bit tired with. If you’re going to be like a performance artist, you might as well leverage, you know, all this cool shit that you have. Yeah. Um, which is cool. Totally. Um, all right, let’s do it, but let’s also like put it to the test. I’ll get Siri out. Yeah. I like it.

Let’s see. Yeah. Okay. I’m going to give, um, what am I going to do? Um, a, well, what am I going to do with, with, with, with seven, oh, $700 of M D M A A.

I think it’s something like that. Um, and, uh, the video accompanying is like the artist doing, I think all of these lines. Um, and yeah, it’s, it’s really funny cause you know, in a true hung up style, we just, uh, watch, you know, we just go straight to the work and then we read the card later. And again, it’s proven, um, as a, the, the only true method of engaging with art cause

it was so, it was so fun, you know, puzzling over like, do you think those subtitles are like connected? Like what’s going on? Um, so yeah, I think this kind of like, um, outward effect of like, yeah, I’ve made this thing, which, which, um, is an artwork, like fair enough. Cool. But it’s also like this got this beautiful, um, sort of like dispersable, like broadcastable,

you know, this is kind of like an almost in the same flavor of, as that, like, you know, anarchist cookbook or something. It’s like how to go undetected or whatever. And I just think that’s so cool. What a beautiful dimension to have, um, in a work, this kind of like community or sort of social, um, play or even like utility, you know, going on.

And there was like an old, like Microsoft app. I think it was called like Microsoft speech. And that was one of like the first like primary school jokes was to like abuse your mate in a robot voice, like a text to speech. Yeah. Your mom dressed you funny. Yeah, totally. Microsoft Sam was his name. I think. Yes.

Yes.

Microsoft Belinda. It kind of reminds me a little bit of that. Yeah. It’s funny. And yeah, I was, what was I watching? I was watching like black books the other night, an episode of it. It’s like on Netflix or something. And it was funny. The like subtitles were all over the place. Have you ever seen that with the show? Like up and down? Yeah. Like they were top right, top left, like different fonts, like yellow, white.

Oh, like as an effect. No, like it was like something that was some kind of, you know, I don’t know, maybe it’s because it’s an old show or something like the way the transcription had happened. Wow. Like under the hood in Netflix. Like it was just. That’s so funny. I don’t know how it happened, but it was super jarring and like unusual. Because I was going to say sometimes they move it if there’s like a bit of text there

on the screen, they’ll move it. But no, you’re saying this is like a bug. Like different characters were speaking and it would be on the left or on the right. Yeah. Cool effect. You know, I think what you said was really nice, like the way you’re talking about it. And it just like helped to open up like how much is happening with a work like this, like in all the like kind of space.

It’s like drawing attention to like, you know, the spaces between communication and how interesting that can become. Like, you know, we’ve always kind of like gotten like, yeah, like hung up or whatever on like words as communication. Sometimes they feel super powerful. Sometimes they feel really like limited. And then it’s funny when you start like, you know, augmenting them and like breaking

them. And then to also include like a kind of AI or computer sense. Totally. Like, you know, to rupture all those patterns, those neat patterns that the computer like desperately wants to like fit it in. You’re just like, nah, nah, nah. It’s like very human. Yeah. Yeah. So playful and light. Great. Yeah. Great. And this fits really nicely with our word theme last week as well.

Yeah. Two weeks ago. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Sick work. Check out the show. Soft power. We’ll link to that as well. Yeah. I think that’s it from us. Yeah. Sick. Great. Check us out on Instagram at hungup.au. And if you could chuck us a subscribe on Apple or Spotify.

And a rating, right? A rating or a review. That would be sick. Lifestyle rating. All right. See you later. All right. See you in a couple of weeks. See you in a couple of weeks.

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Show notes

This week we started with a simple 21st century fit-check.  What's the most important part of an outfit? Matt thinks it's pants, Aiden says no one thinks it's pants. Art show opening outfits, party outfits, work outfits. Party outfits that look like work outfits. The infamous/iconic Tabi shoe with reference to two excellent articles which you should check out by  Arabelle Sicardi and  Sinziana Ravini   Artist of the week is Roslyn Orlando with her AI defying work, Evasion Score for the online show Soft Power at firstdraft.org.au  IG links Arabelle Sicardi Sinziana Ravini Roslyn Orlando