2.3 How we experience Art // the best gallery seat ever

Transcript

All right. Woo! G’day everyone, I’m Aiden. I’m Matt and this is Hung Up. Yeah, so this week we’re kind of responding to something my flatmate said. He was like listening to our last episode and some of our past ones and he was like, you guys sound super analytical.

Like, I feel like I’m not really hearing you talk about how much you like art and how beautiful you find it, how meaningful it is for you. So we kind of wanted to spend the next 40 minutes or so talking about, you know, what we love so much about art and what is so important to us about it. And what art does to the soul?

What does to the soul, man? I feel like the soul is an important concept to me. Like, I find myself drawing on it a lot, even though I’m not religious or anything. Like, I just can’t shake it. It’s like some kind of weird spiritual hang up that I have. And I feel, I don’t know, I feel attached to the idea of like saying people have souls and I have souls.

Like, I don’t know. How do you feel about the soul? Yeah, I mean, we were talking about this earlier. Like, I feel like it’s a very useful word and it’s a very meaningful word. And it definitely gets at something that is indescribable. Yeah.

Like, I don’t, I’m not convinced that I have a soul, but like, I could say that, you know, if an artist has a really unique voice, I might consider them to have like a very strong soul. Or like, if, you know, like a totally recognizable style. Or, you know, I even sort of ascribe or I kind of put that identity of a soul onto an item, you know, like.

Yeah. Um, I think it’s kind of like a, it’s a bit of a weeb thing to say, but like, they definitely kind of have something that, that gets me about the like Japanese, like, you know, physical culture. They’re like, this chisel was passed down from my like great grandfather and I still use it. And it’s like, still just as sharp. Like I sharpened it today kind of thing. Like that thing really does kind of have a soul to me.

Like, I think that’s cool. And it just feels so, so naturally true that I just, I’m sort of compelled to believe it. Totally. Yeah, I agree. That’s kind of where I’m at. I think that sets us up nicely for a discussion later about, you know, the things that we both get out of art and the things that we’re drawn to in art.

This episode of Hung Up includes audio from our visit to Campbelltown Arts Centre in February. We’ll put links to that in the description. And you can find us on Instagram at hungup.au. So, yeah, I wanted to ask you and just like give a brief history of how you got into art and when it started becoming a regular thing in your life.

Right. So, I had parents or I had a mom that took me to a lot of art galleries. And her and her mom both like almost insisted that I take an art history course at uni, which was around the time that we met. But it wasn’t until like we really started going out to galleries that I, around that time, 2013, 2014, I think it was.

Yeah. That we, that we both, I think, grew a really, that we sort of developed a growing appreciation for the gallery as a space and then contemporary art and local contemporary art. It’s like a thing to do, like just a thing to do on any night of the week kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. As opposed to going to see a movie or a show. Yeah. And it was like this cool like social thing as well. Like you could get drunk for free and you could like sit in Newtown and smoke cigarettes and talk shit. And that was kind of sexy. And also for me, like I had just moved to Sydney. So, it was this kind of exciting way of exploring parts of the city that I had never seen before. And it still is that for me.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And then like for me, it was my ex-girlfriend. I remember we were sitting in Martini Cafe on South King Street and she had her like published book of readings. Like back when they still did that. It’s all online now. You don’t get your big ugly reader with like poorly copied theoretical essays in it.

But she was reading an article about like modernism and we started going to galleries together. And we started off going to like the big ones like the ag and, you know, going to the impressionists and stuff. And then eventually, yeah, we started going to galleries and the whole contemporary art world kind of opened up to me.

And I’ve pretty much been fascinated by it ever since. It’s had this special kind of appeal. When I went to the UK and lived there for a while, like the galleries was a really cool way for me to, I don’t know, explore, explore the city in this really powerful way. Like there was this gallery, the Approach Gallery that was set in this kind of beautiful like bougie pub.

And everyone would be eating these like fucking massive, beautiful roast dinners with like Yorkshire pudding. And you’d walk through the pub and it smelled like beer. And then you’d go up this narrow staircase and it just opened up into this just immaculate gallery, like this big empty space. And they gave it like, you know, these old wooden floors and the shows there were always so good.

And the shows were given so much space and room to breathe. Like it was really high caliber of like mid to senior artist in what felt like a really personal private space. And I remember I would like cycle there on a Sunday and I would just feel like so privileged to have this almost like religious space just off the high street that felt like it was all mine.

And like, you know, aside from the kind of beauty of just the space, like architecturally, then on top of that, I get this like mind blowing show. Right, right. I think like there. So there is this like there is a bit of a sort of anti gallery movement going on, like right.

Like we see like people like the white pube talking about like the hegemony of places like the MCA or the Tate in London. But you and I have this appreciation of sort of middle sized, small sized galleries that like really have given us, I think, like a place to feel like free and outside of everyday life.

You know, I think like we should be aware of that kind of like a white man, like capitalist, like gallery as, you know, economic production. Like we should we should be wary of that stuff. But I don’t think we should lose sight of how important these little spaces are to people like you and I or to like any of the people, the thousands of people we’ve seen in galleries like over the last like, yeah, what, eight years or something.

Yeah. I mean, it’s important to note that they’re usually taking aim like the white pube are always punching up and they have specific grievances with institutions, you know, like I don’t think aiming that gun at, you know, local. Artists run spaces or anything like that. No.

Yeah, they’re not. They’re not. Yeah. But it’s funny because, you know, I I haven’t been to the MCA since I’ve been back. So it’s probably been like four or five years. I don’t really have a desire to go. But, you know, institutions can have their own, you know, charms as well, I suppose. Yeah. They’ve got their own vibe. I really like loud.

I really like the Barbican in the UK. Like I saw a lot of cool shows there and like the white pube have just been like destroying them mostly because of their like hiring practices and racism and stuff. But like it hurt a little bit because that that even though the Barbican was an institution in London to me, which was such a hectic city, like I did find a lot of kind of like peace and privacy and a lot of these similar feelings that I’ve had at smaller galleries.

So it does hurt a little bit to see them like take it down. But I don’t think, again, that they’re taking shots at like members of the public who have had good experiences there. They’re really, you know, their critique is systemic.

Okay, let’s move along. Yeah. So like that was kind of our history of how we got into art. And I wanted to like know for you, what in particular is it about the art experience or the gallery experience that feels unique? Why has it kept us drawn in so tightly for so long?

Yeah. So I think like it’s interesting just thinking about this now. And we haven’t really talked about this before, but, you know, when we started going, we were in galleries like packed with people like pretty much all the time. It felt like it was a Wednesday night thing. And the social stuff was as big as the art experience stuff.

But these days you and I will go sometimes just even on our own to do that kind of thing. And I think what I have found, just speaking for myself now, is, you know, like some kind of freedom in these spaces to like just to like it’s almost like a meditation.

Like or yeah, I mean, I used the word an escape earlier. Like, you know, a lot of the time you’re being shown things from the world. Like it’s not always that you’re seeing a show that’s like about abstract shapes, for example. Although that is fun when we see it. But, you know, we’ll go to some political stuff. But I think just just the very architecture, the architectural like principles of these kind of places.

And then like, you know, like I think like you could do you could train an AI to detect what a gallery looks like. Right. Like they’re not all completely unique. You know, what I’m saying is that I think there’s like some kind of architectural like response that that I have to to these spaces that just it feels like.

You know, a place of like exploration and this kind of open, like gentle, humble kind of human experience feeling. Yeah. Whereas like, you know, you’re at your job or I’m like doing anything else in my life. And it’s like you’re you’re you’re sort of unaware of that stuff. And like, like I just want to like steal your line earlier, which is like, you know, it’s not a church.

Like it’s not fusty, but we do feel like kind of like this sacred feeling in those places. You know, there’s definitely this like change in mood. Right. You’re like now I’ve walked into the space like for seeing it’s like a it’s another type of activity, like where it’s like playing sports. It’s this it’s this it’s a certain type of mood that you’re kind of put in, which I really love.

For me, it’s a really like raw, vulnerable if it’s a good show. And I always, always get at like the threshold of the gallery, like I open up and I get this feeling of just where were we at? I think it was called Station Gallery. Is that what you’re talking about? No, the one in Marrickville. I think it was like airspace projects or something like that.

Yeah, airspace. Yeah, that’s right. Airspace. And I kind of just came to it and it was just like funky little weird space. And just like the moment that I start to see the art and see the gallery like, you know, ahead of me, I get this like real excitement, this freedom that I’m going to be taken into like another world. And then I’m going to be given the opportunity to, you know, be in this state that you’re talking about.

And it’s almost this like, like it’s this calm excitement, this openness, this anticipation of, you know, all these new worlds that you’re about to engage with. Yeah, absolutely. So we’re not art experts, like we’re not curating shows and we’re not writing in journals and stuff like that.

But I think we really do feel comfortable talking about art for one. And secondly, we feel very comfortable in galleries. So just like following on from that, can you explain for the listeners the hung up room sheet policy? Yeah. So just to say, like, we really like room sheets.

We don’t really have anything against room sheets. The thing we’re a little bit suspicious of is… I’ve been collecting them. Yeah, you collect them. You’ve got a manila folder. It’s a really nice keepsake. And we refer to them a bunch. And but yeah, when we walk into a show, we like intentionally don’t look at the room sheet. We don’t pick it up. We don’t want it. We don’t want the artist’s take.

We don’t want the gallery’s take. And we don’t really want to even know, you know, quote, important details about the work yet. To the point where we will refuse it if someone offers it to us. That’s pretty funny. Like someone will be like, can I interest you? And you’re like, no, no, no, no. Like, hands up.

It’s not touching. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that’s just about, I think, preserving that moment that we’re talking about, which is this, you know, the white pube talk about embodied criticism. John Berger in his ways of seeing talks about like, you know, you don’t need to be an expert. You just need to be a human. You know, you need, you know, if you are a human, if you know how to feel, if you know, you know, what emotions are and you felt them and you’re comfortable feeling them, you will understand the work.

And so I think we are trying to like take away that analytical stuff, take away, you know, a bit of the context and just, you know, trust ourselves first. And then after we’ve done that first kind of cycle, then we’ll pick up a room sheet or maybe we’ll chat to someone who’s at the gallery and get that extra level of detail, which, you know, at that point, I think is really rewarding and valuable.

Yeah, we see things twice, especially if they’re very resonant for us. You know, we see them in these two different lights.

Yeah, so I think like no doubt galleries can be intimidating. Contemporary art is difficult. Like that doesn’t even need to be said. But I think we’ve kind of chatted about like a few different types of expertise or skill that’s involved in seeing art and being in galleries. I think the first one that most people get exposed to and like unfortunately get hung up on is the kind of academic art historical skills.

And then the second one, which I think is more interesting and more valuable is a sensitivity to materials and how things are made. You know, what the history of those materials like, you know, having that knowledge is is really powerful. And then the third one is what we’ve been talking about, which is this recent receptivity and comfort to being in the spaces.

And for that for that for that state, you know, that, you know, what would you call it, like openness to that experience of art? I think between the two of us on that second one, like in terms of sensitivity to materials, you’re definitely like a lot further down that rabbit hole than me. And yeah.

And maybe you could just talk on, you know, what that stuff means for you. Yeah, sure. Yeah. When I’m looking at a work and like I can I can sort of see how the artist has made it, I think like I really feel connected to the conception of the work. And like most of the works that we’ve seen and we’ve probably been to like, I don’t know, whatever, 100 galleries, 300 galleries, don’t know how to put a number on it.

But, you know, 90 percent of them sort of were conceived outside of the gallery and then moved in, you know, and then I think having some kind of knowledge of like materials and processes has really like brought me this kind of very close connection to a lot of the works that I’ve seen.

So, for example, like we were at the the Embroiderer’s Guild to tape an early episode of this and I just got so much out of digging the fabrics and the textiles that were at play.

And I think for some of the more historical stuff, we kind of lost you. Like it felt like a museum. Totally. And like you get pretty slippery in museums, but I’m like, you know, I’m like, look, I don’t I don’t love like boring stuff in museums. I’m cool, I swear. But, you know, I I really I really do get a lot out of this sense of like this was made by a human.

It’s just it’s so compelling to me. And that for me is one of those like those like indescribable soul things that like, you know, I can’t really say that like this person has a soul. This person doesn’t have a soul. But like I just you know, I feel like for sure about it when I see something beautiful made by human hands. Yeah.

It’s just so cool. You know, and then and then like to extend that further, like, you know, I also am interested in and I can’t explain why I’m interested in like industrial processes and industrial plastics and stuff like for every work that we see. That’s not like an ancient art form. You know, I just I get so much enjoyment out of like knowing the industrial story behind the things at play, too.

Yeah. It’s really powerful. And I and I really like admire and dig. And I remember that show, like I was almost playing like catch up. I was like, hmm, OK, this is this is pretty cool. Like this piece of historical lace. All right. I see a little bit of what you see. But I think it’s important. Like, you know, and those are three like pillars of what you could call like skills in digging art.

And I’m sure there’s plenty more. But people are always going to have like slightly different levels of, you know, capacity just because of how they’re built. Right. They’re going to be more drawn to the materials. Are they going to be more drawn to the concept or maybe that some are going to be more drawn to the history and maybe the artists themselves. And that’s just that’s just part of it.

But I think, you know, I think early when I was seeing art, I was kind of afraid or I found the material stuff difficult to grasp. And so I kind of diminished it. I was like, you know, I was super into conceptual stuff. And now I find a lot of beauty and meaning in attending to the materials.

Not as deeply as you, but I think like as I kind of, you know, looked at that fear and examined maybe why I was running away from that part of the work, you know, and got more comfortable and grappled with that. The works and different types of works kind of became more open to me. So, yeah, I think you you don’t want to sell yourself short if you have a like if you’re naturally drawn to a kind of certain way of seeing it’s worth definitely exploring why and maybe, you know, why the other why the other parts or what what you still have to get out of those other kind of aspects of of seeing.

For sure. And I think like just to bring it back to the room sheet thing, like, you know, we see people in galleries like feeling uncomfortable and like it’s an odd space. Like, you know, in a pub, you’ve got like a place to stand. You’ve got a drink to hold. You’ve got a seat to sit on. Like, you know, in a library, there’s books or whatever at a rock show. There’s like a band that’s like really holding your attention.

But in a gallery, it’s all up to you. And I think, you know, when we see people like using room sheets as like a crutch, as like a sort of prop almost to like just to like lubricate socially lubricate and like to make them feel comfortable. You know, it really, I think, reiterates to us that like this this way of just interacting with the work on your own human terms is just such a it is kind of a brave thing to do.

You know, if you’re a nervous person, like you feel like you need something to hang on to. Like it sort of acts like a shield in that way. But what we’re saying is that like, you know, there’s this really beautiful like world of vulnerable experience that like that we’ve gotten out of ignoring that first round of room sheet mediated art.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Really well put. And I just wanted to say one thing that came to mind with the room sheet. Have you felt like sometimes the room sheet is illuminating in a really nice way? And you’re like, huh, cool. Like, that’s a great detail that really ties my understanding of this work together in a profound way. And then other times the artist statement is like fluffy and pretentious and it makes you like the work less.

Or you mentioned earlier, like the gallery’s propaganda, like maybe the curator or the vibe of the show or the intentions of the gallery. They really want to impose like their will on the show. And then that can be annoying as well. So like, yeah, the room sheet has a lot of interesting, interesting baggage.

It’s almost like you could do a whole show on it because it really is. Yeah, that’s true. It’s so funny that it’s such a like, oh, it can be. I know shows that have like experimented with the room sheet, but it’s almost it’s so like declarative and like stuffy in comparison to like the breadth of experience.

You know, it has the prices and the titles and everything’s given like the same standing. Yeah. But yeah, not to knock it. Like I think that they can be very valuable and I I wouldn’t leave a show without picking up the room sheet and thumbing through it later. And I have room sheets in my room and I like I like them as like mementos and memories.

Absolutely. They’re great things. Yeah. Most of the time the room sheets all we can afford to take home from the gallery. If not like, you know, a tote or something. And the other thing is like, you know, sometimes like we’ve gone to see a show, especially like the bigger shows and the galleries like the place like Art Gallery of New South Wales. They’re like they’re not just like a gallery, you know, they’re also like they’re kind of at the behest of some they sort of they feel the pressure of some kind of like governmental, like touristy, like representing Australia kind of stuff.

And they’re like dumb the heck out of the little plaques next to the works, you know. And we like several times in that were like, well, that that was a stupid reading. Like, you know, like what like what narrow minded reading like, you know, and I think we got we got so we were well placed to be like in that show because, you know, that stuff just like like didn’t faze us.

You know, we weren’t like colored, you know, our opinions weren’t colored by their like kind of dumb, like broad stroke, like, yeah, sort of undergrad readings. Yeah. Cool. And then I guess let’s say a little something about the kind of textbook stuff. Like, I think now the kind of trend is to be quite critical of art history, especially like Western art history and and say, like, you don’t need to know about it.

And I and I think that is true. And that is cool. And, you know, I think some of my experiences like studying art at uni were really dry. Like I did an art history unit and I remember being like, you know, in a room full of people who liked this really specific thing that I liked. And the tutor was obsessed with like admin and like really just the driest parts of art.

Like and it was just it just I just felt like there was this beautiful opportunity being wasted, like to be in a room of like young Australian art interested people. And we were doing all the first skill like we were just being academics. And I was like, oh, damn, this sucks. Like, yeah, like that being said, like, it’s cool to say, like, you don’t need to know art history.

But I think like some of our abilities and skills and comfort with art definitely have been built up on a more traditional academic understanding of art, even though between us, we’ve only done, you know, a handful of units like undergrad units. But I think that stuff has has, you know, even you were saying before about like, you know, getting the references.

Yeah, absolutely. And that stuff snuck up on us. You know, like we started out going socially and like casually to these things. And like today we’re like taping episodes like almost every week about art, you know, about Sydney art in particular. So like we’re we feel invested and we feel very energetic about, you know, art locally.

But, you know, I think what like we would say if like by any chance there’s someone out there listening that like doesn’t actually, you know, go to galleries, which may not even be true. Like but, you know, what we’re saying really is like just just going and like being like feeling open in those spaces is is enough to like potentially spark your interest and then, you know, start you down a path of like eventually really getting so much out of these things that that like we’re trying to we’re trying to convey that to you today.

Totally. And I think like one point on the way you frame that it’s like maybe in the past there was like this really prescriptive path that you had to take to like have expertise in seeing art. But now it’s like so much more like it’s exploded. Like you can learn things from completely different cultures, completely different times.

You can pull in all sorts of things from outside of the art world, all these things from your lived experience. And you can kind of stitch it together piecemeal into this, you know, personal network of ways that you relate to art, like, you know, not not really distinct from the rest of your life and have this really profound hobby or interest or whatever.

But, yeah, you can really like self-direct that now. Whereas I think back in the day there was, you know, traditions that you were, you know, expected to study in a very formal way. Boring. Pretty boring. Pretty boring. Yeah. Okay, let’s move on.

Okay, cool. Yeah, so I just wanted to like jump off this discussion of like how we’ve come to be comfortable with art and how, you know, how important it is to us. With this really beautiful day we had like about a year ago. I had just kind of come back from the UK and we were wanting to get out of the inner west and we saw Campbelltown Arts Centre had a show on and we’d never been there.

So we like drove there. And I remember it was like a stinking hot day. And we were like listening to fucking Stereolab or something in your car and just like chatting and talking a bunch of shit. And then we get to the gallery and it was just like a beautiful big building. And I remember there was a big like 100 meter run up from like the car park to the front door.

And that was this big like three tiered like seating structure thing where you have your lunch or whatever. And you would like climb to the top and there’s just this really funny photo you got of me like marching like into battle, like into the exhibition. And you got this photo of me from like a nice high perspective. And it was a really great show for a couple of reasons.

But I just wanted to talk a little bit about like just from the show’s website, because it had this really interesting like history. It was kind of like a retrospective of the legacy of this Western Sydney Uni. So I’ll just read the first two paragraphs from the website.

It goes, And it goes on from the first graduating class in 1986 to the final cohort as the curtain closed in 2009.

The art school was a pioneering hub for experimentation and risk taking across a broad variety of media. So this show was just a big kind of collection of work produced by students, you know, across that time. It felt like such an exciting young people art show to be at.

Yeah. And I think part of what made it exciting was that there were some failures in there, you know, and each success or failure really set us up like in a moment of suspense for the next one. Like, will it will it rock or is it going to suck? Yeah. And yeah, there were some great works. And we’ll get it. We’ll get into some particular works.

I remember feeling like even just like in the entrance reading that description of the university, like an actual pang of like sorrow in the in the sort of what did they say when the curtain finally closed in 2009? It really got me. I was like, damn, what are all these beautiful young artists going to do now without this? Yeah, man. Without this. Yeah. So that was, you know, that was a good case of like, you know, the room sheet setting us up, I think, in a nice way.

For sure. Yeah. It’s a very, it’s a very cool space. And I guess something should be said about it being in the West and in Campbelltown and, you know, the state of of what’s happening with the kind of big inner Sydney unis now. Like SEA getting squashed into UCEDD and stuff. And but yeah, definitely the like historical tethering, like people talk about like cultural cringe or like the Sydney art scene being small.

So I find it quite exciting to be tied to like a history in this country and in this place.

I’m going to push.

All right. So we talked about the day we talked about like me fucking marching into the threshold of Campbelltown art space. Now, like I want to get into some of the works because, you know, not only was the whole day beautiful, but it really was a good expression of what we’ve been talking about, about like, you know, the gallery as, you know, a profound place and a special place and a fun place.

And we picked out a few works that like we really dug. And why don’t you go ahead and talk about the first one? The first one is called Kitty Kitty by Anna Boros. It is a like large ish. It is a painting of a cat in resplendent, like kind of occult-y Egyptian uniform.

And I think we can actually play some audio of our like first reaction to it. Yeah, it’s true. Yeah. We’re like full of stuff. Whoa, there’s a cat with lipstick on it. Yeah. Wow. Anna Boros. Pastel on camera. Yeah, these kind of washed out old school looking colors.

Yeah. And the cat has like the mouth or the lips of a woman. Yeah, it has like teeth, like human teeth. Yeah. And it’s like sort of like, so this like puckered, uncanny, like frozen in time. Yeah. And also this kind of like caught out. Yeah. Caught naked. And the like the lipstick in particular on the cat and its teeth really like tickled us.

And I think like something about that, like the fun and the joy of this painting, like in 2006 when it was painted, like you could totally have used a very cutting edge sense of the word random to describe it. I think that was just, it was so fun for us. And we spent a good like 20 minutes in front of it, like describing it and like resonating

with it and just vibing with this like really fun thing. And then on the website, the artist has got just a really cool like recollection of the time that they had at this uni at like Space YZ.

I’ll just like read a little bit from it. It’s like the parties and the music. My singing performances helped me, helped light up Z block. Teachers just wanted us to be happy and express ourselves. Sometimes I would buy a bucket of ice cream and cones when Z block would get really hot in the summer and got the workers like myself to help themselves. So cool.

So fucking cool. I’m just reading down the bottom of her bio. She’s like, how far I’ve come. Besides being a capable and dedicated artist, I’m also having fun being the occasional gamer using a gaming laptop. To me, it’s amusing, but we never know where we’ll end up. I’m 62 now and I occasionally help out some Instagrammers to build sophisticated builds

in Minecraft. Wow. Amazing. This is the life. Wow. Yeah. And like, you got to go check out the documentation for the site. We’ll leave all the links in the post and in the show notes. But this was just like, there’s something hilarious about this work. Like, I don’t know if you already said, but like, it’s just so funny and fun.

And it’s got these kind of like, washed out, like, traditional looking colors. Something about it. Like, there’s this clash of like, there’s this clash of what the cat is wearing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s hilarious. Yeah. For sure.

Yeah. It was, it was a really fun and like, engaging piece. Yeah. I mean, there’s got to be something to be said. Like when an artwork makes you laugh, like that’s the best. Oh, for sure. Yeah. It’s like, there really is no wit, like humor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s the best. So cool. It’s really fun. I love this flare around that black hole.

There’s also like an Ionian column without the capital. All right. Cool. Um, one of my favorite works from the show was called Volitional Bus by Kusum Normoyle. And I’ve kind of been following Kusum for a while. I saw her perform at Verge Gallery, like way back in the day. And I think she makes a whole bunch of different types of work.

But, um, this is cool. I’m just looking at her profile on the website. It says like grad show 2008, grad ceremony, didn’t go. Cool. And this work was like, uh, I think there was a few videos, but the one that I remember us standing in front of for the longest was, um, Kusum like on a median strip with like

a microphone and like a little amp or, or maybe something more complex than that. Like kind of wailing and screaming and shouting as like the cars whizzed by like in the evening. And I don’t know. It’s a, it’s a very like cool intersection between like performance and video art and like noise music.

And like, you know, when, when I saw her perform, I was just wild, you know, like complete chaos. That’s cool. Okay. That’s so cool. Yeah. Like doing screamo moves. Yeah. It’s just a microphone and a busking amp. Big time screamo moves. And you can’t see their face. Yeah. You can see her absolutely hollering into that microphone.

Hard to say where she is. It looks like she’s in the city somewhere. There’s like big, like, you know, art gallery exhibition flags going. Yeah. Kind of makes you like hungry for the noise when it’s like, you know, this thing is so loud. Oh, the police have come. Kusum has this like kind of wry smile. Yeah. She’s like looking at them like, cool, I’m done.

And wrapping up the, yeah, she’s wrapping up the mic. Yeah. With the red and blue police light flashes. Cool. She’s like, I did it. Like a second guy. See ya. Oh, my God. Miss it. Yeah.

And I think that was like a really cool moment that, you know, like some of the process that we’ve done. And I kind of just realized now, I mean, we’ve talked about it a little bit in early episodes that making this podcast and like having to engage in ways, you know, re-engage with works and like think about them for an audience has kind of like added another element of that

kind of expertise. Like, you know, it’s kind of allowed us and given us the opportunity to dig back into things like this. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. We’re really like paying this stuff like all of its like due attention and then some like for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah.

We loved this work. We were wrapped and wrapped watching it. Like, I think we saw the whole thing loop through at least once, which is like kind of rare for us and video works. We were. That’s exactly what we were. Yeah. Yeah. And then on the list, we actually have another video work, which is kind of funny because video work can be tricky sometimes.

But I’m going to let you describe this one. I just want to talk about like the way the work was set up. So it was like as if you were in like an artist’s share house, like lounge room and on one end was like an old TV with the work on it. And you sat on like a big squashy comfy couch.

I remember I had this like big fat arm and you were like, it’s perfect for like sitting a beer on. Like you could put your beer on it and it wouldn’t fall over.

It was a beautiful squishy couch. Like an actual, like we’ve talked a little bit about uncomfortable gallery seatings and like arty looking chairs, but this was like something out of like your auntie’s like living room. It was so comfortable.

Dude. I mean, this is like a pretty special moment for me because it’s the realization of something that I’ve like literally been crying about for a decade, which is why the fucking like couches in galleries to watch video artworks so like austere and uncomfortable. Yeah, totally. They make you sort of perch with all your muscles. And everyone crowds around them. Yeah, totally.

It’s too scary to sit on them. Yeah, true. Yeah. No, this is just a really good sofa. This is just a really shit comfy ass couch. Yeah, it’s so good. It feels like it like has a Murphy bed in it. You could put a beer on this arm chest. The arms are massive. That was like art books like strewn around the work. Like you’re really like taken into like the lounge room thing, which I think is super cool because like, yeah, you know, a lot of the media we watch, like we don’t even think about

like the nice setups that we’ve curated in our houses to watch TV. Like we’ve really made it comfortable and personal and like you get all tucked up and you get your snacks and your beer or whatever. But then like when you’re in the gallery trying to like watch the video, like it’s so far from that comfort. For sure. Yeah. So it’s really hard to enjoy it.

But yeah, this work was definitely aware of that. So that’s the setup. It’s a sofa and a TV. The TV’s on some milk crates and it was in like the kind of like the bare like stud framework of a house. Yes. Yes, exactly. And then do you want to talk about the actual work?

And so the playing on that TV is this kind of like it felt like about an hour or a long sort of half an hour of like just cut up and like vapor waved out ads taking their normal place as breaks ad breaks from an episode of Neighbours, which itself had just been completely

vibed out and like washed out all these like edits and cuts and like sort of like the replacements. It was like it was really a kind of a digital collage of itself. Watching Tally. Watching Neighbours. Okay. But it’s like, yeah, Watching Neighbours from the 80s.

But it’s all like chopped and screwed. It’s like 18 weeks of art picture cut. Those characters are still alive. Really? They’re still going. Well, yeah. I mean, I know that guy on the right. I think his name is Carl. Yeah. But I know him as like a much older man. Okay. Yeah. From when I watched this show. That’s so cool.

That’s where Scott and Charlene are from. From the band. They’re from Neighbours? Those are characters. Oh, Scott and Charlene are characters from this show. Cool. And the fucking, the main guy, the singer was saying he was like in my family or he felt like in Australia that that was like the royal wedding.

Oh, that’s so cool. That’s beautiful. All of the dialogue has been snapped out. This is so good. They’re like, they’re like flying through the plot with just expressions.

Yeah. I don’t know if I’m remembering correctly, but I think maybe all of the dialogue had been cut out. Yes. That’s right. So it was just like, they didn’t have any dialogue in. That’s right. Yeah. So they were absolutely rocketing through the plot. And then, and then like, you know, there’d be these huge jump cuts because like, there was like five minutes of dialogue and then like all of a sudden everyone’s downstairs

again kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. It had a really profound effect. Like, and it was funny and it was wild and it was fun and it was kind of like preempting like, I guess, a modern, like chaotic media consumption, but also did really like fun and cool investigations of like sitcom narrative because you were just getting like the longing

glances and like those, you know, the moments where the camera like really hangs to let you feel like the emotion of like a walkout or a breakup or, you know, and then it really exposed all of that, that overacting that goes on. Yeah. And, uh, I just want to say one thing that he has on the list. He goes, it seemed to strike a chord with people because it has a timestamp.

That timestamp is frozen pop culture re-edited, a trigger for a memory in being and time. And like, for me, I did used to watch Neighbours a Bunch with my mom and it was so funny to see because, you know, I guess one of the, the really funny Australian historical kind of, um, things about like Neighbours and Home and Away is that the same actors, the same

characters are on the show fucking forever. So I’m seeing like these guys and these women that I know as old men as like much younger people. And that was just like a trip. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Uh, it was, it was such a cool work and, and to see it from this like squishy, comfortable sofa with like, it had kind of like student accoutrement like scattered around.

It had like an art school reader and like, yeah, all the milk crates. I forget what else. We might have a picture of it somewhere. Yeah. Um, yeah, that, that was a real, that was a real, like absolute banger of, of, of a, of a work. We walked away being like, we were like shook and we were so hyped up by the experience after

that. It was, it was such a, yeah, it was such, so cool. It’s really nice to relive it. And, um, yeah, I guess like there’s a bunch of other works that we found interesting. Some that we thought were just less interesting. Like you were kind of talking about it, like there were plenty of like failures and like, you know, definitely like naive work or work that felt like it was kind of cliche or out of art

school, which is good and fine. And, and definitely cool to see in the context of this show. Yeah. And then like, we went out and we like, I can’t remember the vibe. We had this like, like pleasant walk through the garden or something. They have like a really nice garden there for some reason. Yeah. We were all, we were all excited. Like a couple of school boys and, and they have this, um, a very beautiful, like garden at

the back, like a very sort of gorgeous, like koi pond and little like sitting places and viewing halls and stuff. And we walked around, I think I snapped a few photos. And then by then we were like hungry enough to leave. And we went to probably one of our favorite, um, restaurant chains in Sydney, which is El

Jana in Campbelltown there. And, um, do you want to like, just talk us through it? I actually, let me just say like the, the one thing that I remember about that is that, um, so I’ve got an El Jana up the road here in Newtown, but the first thing that I noticed when the food came out was that all the servings were bigger. Yes, dude. It’s way better.

It’s way better. So like El Jana is cool. Cause like, I came back to Sydney and like, everyone was like hyped on it. And like, we had it a few times together and it was great, but like, yeah, the one in Campbelltown, like it’s, it’s on another level. Like they’re definitely shortchanging you in Newtown, like no doubt. Right. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

But yeah, that was such a beautiful meal. I might actually get some tonight, dude. I’m not kidding. Dude, I’ve been, uh, did you see my dinner last night? I got this whole chicken and I brined it in, um, pickled juice, like chili juice. And then I’ve just been like, I was going to roast it, but I’ve wanted like little piece of chicken. So I’ve just been like carving up, like carve off the breast or carve off like the thigh

and just like fry it up or roast it. But it’s just been sitting in the pickle brine for like a day. It’s really nice. Why didn’t you tell me about the pickle brine? The pickle brine brine. That changed everything. Changes everything. I basically ignored your photo, but I would have, I would have given it some more attention. That’s okay. It’s fine. You know, I was only mildly heartbroken. I think I sent you like four food pictures that day.

So I get it. Yeah, it’s true. Yeah, it’s true. I can’t, I don’t expect a response for everyone. I’m a busy guy, dude. I’m busy. I wouldn’t have minded at least like a thumbs up react, you know? Well, El Janna is closed now anyway. So I guess it’s, uh, yeah. Something else for dinner tonight. Shall we, uh, move on? Yeah, let’s move on.

Uh, stick around for artists of the week. Our hung up artist of the week is Kazuya Yoshino.

Um, I first came across her at a, um, show just like on the corner right down the road from my house at a place called The Corner Shop, which is this really beautiful little show that we’ll do a little piece on later on. I think I’ve been planning a little, um, segment about it.

Awesome. Um, but it’s basically a little Cornish. It used to be a corner shop and it’s like a, it’s a family home and a gallery they say. But what’s unique about it is that it’s all visible from the street. So there’s no interior of the gallery. Um, Otis, the lovely young guy that runs it is, um, very carefully choosing photographers,

generally photographers to show in the windows there. And it’s just such a cool little, um, focus for the new town kind of area. And, and I, I always see, I can basically see it from my house if I poke my head out the window and I always see people walking their dog, like stopping, you know, unlikely looking people stopping to look at what’s going on.

Uh, so I’m, I’m always there just checking out what’s up. Um, and, um, this show after, after, um, you know, I’d been living here for like a year. This one really like really pulled at me to the point where I started bringing people back to show them this, this work. Yeah.

Um, I think I, I think I, I think I dragged about three or four people past the windows here, um, before it, before the gallery closed. Um, the show was called Before She Dies and it was a real, a series of like really beautiful, intimate, uh, portraits of, uh, the artist’s grandmother, um, presumably like, you know,

in the sort of twilight years of her life. Um, and it’s, it’s, and it’s a picture of this sort of fun and like, even like silly woman, like, and I don’t really want to say silly in like a diminutive sense, like this kind of lighthearted, um, warm soul, let’s say. Um, there was a picture, I, I, I’m not seeing it on the website here, but there was this beautiful

picture of like food being prepared, you know? Uh, so it wasn’t all just the, the, the grandmother. Um, and there was like, you know, a snowy day, like they’re out in the snow and like, yeah, man. So seven or eight, maybe 12, like biggish black and white photos on the one side of the gallery. It’s kind of on a corner.

So there’s two sides and then on the other side, there was this series of very sweet, um, family snaps, like just little six by four, um, uh, like family moments in color. Uh, and I think the one that, that I, I remember the best is, uh, this cute little baby getting

its nose pinched by a pair of chopsticks, like the arm reaching in from outside of the frame. And yeah, just what a, what an absolutely lovely show. And, and, and like, so focused in its, in its scope and just like totally potent imagery, like just real, like red hot images that, that, that to this day, I’m still like, I’m really

loving looking at them. Like this artist just has such a cool way of seeing things that, that it’s, it’s one of those things that make good photographers so special. Like they really do like pick out these little splinters of, of real life and, and put them in, in a really witty way to you. Um, and, and that’s so much of what I got from this show.

Yeah. Fantastic, man. That was lovely. Yeah. It’s such a cool thing. I was just thinking like, yeah, you took me there and it’s such a nice, um, well, it’s like public art quote unquote, like done right. You know? Mm. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. That gallery fucking rocks. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Awesome, man.

Well, I think that, that does us. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, do you know what? No one’s canceled this week, so they got off, they got off easy. I think we should say that. Okay. Yeah. Cause like. You’re safe for now. People are canceled this week, but we just like couldn’t find them. Dude. It’s funny that we, it’s, it, it would be funny if no one in the whole world was canceled

this week because we didn’t do a segment. That’s what I’m saying. Yeah. Awesome. Cool. Well, that’s it for this week. Um, thanks so much for listening. Yeah. Um, yeah. Be sure to check us out on Instagram. We’ve got all the artists and shows that we talked about, uh, in the show notes and in the post that I’ll do, uh, anything else?

No. See you later, man. Enjoy your dinner. Yeah. Will do. All right. Talk to you later. Good night. Bye. Thank you.

Thank you.

Show notes

Do you believe in the Soul?  In this show, we're on about  Personal Art histories, the architecture of galleries, The Hung Up Room Sheet Policy, being a human, vulnerable art experience, Campbelltown Arts Center, and literally the best gallery sofa we've come across (YET)  Instagram handles:  Kazuya Yoshino - @kataomoi___ (Artist of the week!) daniel mudie cunningham - @danmudcun approach - @approachgallery airspace - @airspaceprojects Anna Boros - @annaborosartist (Kitty Kitty painting) Ivan Lisyak - @turbo2.exe (Neighbours work + 10/10 couch) Campbelltown arts centre - @campbelltownartscentre  Kusum Normoyle site https://kusumnormoyle.net/