2.2 Art Versus Sport

Transcript

Hey, you’re listening to Hung Up. My name’s Matt. I’m Aiden. So this week we are talking all about sport. Feel free to write in with any comments or questions on our Instagram,

which is hungup.au. Let’s go. Let’s fucking go, dude. First lockdown cab off the rank, huh? Yeah, that’s right. Yes, this is dope. I’m fucking hyped. Midday, day 60 million of the lockdown. Yeah, let’s get it. So our question is, why do so many art people think sport is dumb?

And why do so many sport people think art is dumb? That’s the counter question. I wanted to say something like first up just about our relationship with sport like together. Yeah. Yeah. So like, what have we known each other now for like eight, 10 years or something? Something like that. Something like that. And I still remember like seeing you bounding around,

you said with your big like Sennheiser’s on. I was like, that guy was cool. I want to meet that guy. And then like, I’d say for the first however many years of our relationship, we probably never played any sport together, right? Like… The closest thing we came to was like playing chess. Yeah, exactly. We just… And staying up late. We just smoke cigarettes and like, sit on your bed or whatever.

Yeah. And then like, I went away and I guess we got older or whatever. And then like, something happened and it was like, okay to like play sport or something. Yeah. Like for us. Yeah. Yeah. And then… Something like, something like it was okay to play sport. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I don’t know. Whatever, whatever happened. But then like,

what year ago, year and a half ago, we both kind of played a bunch of sport together. Like we spent a whole summer playing soccer in Henson Park together. And you know, we’ve kicked like every ball imaginable. We’ve watched sport together. Like we’ve talked about sport a bunch. And I just thought that was like a funny turn for our relationship.

Yeah, totally. I never would have thought… I’ve historically been like, like almost anti-sport. I mean, I remember like just being like totally, um, like exasperated at the thought of team sports in ever since I’ve, I was small basically. Yeah. Um, and yeah. So,

so like something has changed. You’re right. Like, I don’t know if it was like we gave ourselves permission or, you know, if we just felt like we needed to get fit or something, but yeah, we’ve definitely like, we’ve definitely both like really, um, fallen in love with just like physical activity in the last like few years. Um, and we’ve become those people who are like,

like, you’ve got to go to the gym, dude. It makes your mental health better and stuff like, and it sucks cause it’s true. And you just, and actually, you know what? Like it doesn’t suck that that’s true, but it sucks how like quickly you become like preachy about it. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s just so much fun. Like, yeah. Yeah. But I think, yeah, I think just you mentioned something about like,

whether you just wanted to get fit or whether it was permission, I like strongly believe it was like, it was more spiritual and beautiful than just like, Oh, like I’m in my late twenties. I need to like be able to run a lap. Like, I think it was for me. And I think it like, I don’t know if you think this, but I feel like this is true for you as well, that there was like definitely some like identity and

like, I don’t know, like shedding the kind of trappings of like who you thought you had to be as like a 20 year old in a West artist or whatever. Like, uh, and I think like just to kind of, um, foreshadow, like some of the ideas, uh, that we’re, we’ve been thinking about, I feel like, I don’t know, a lot of this, like, uh, sport is cool. Sport is okay. Sport is like not okay. Comes

from these like, uh, strongly held kind of narrow conceptions of identity. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And like, that’s something that I really like about our relationship is that we, we sort of examine each other’s lives and as well as our own. And like you, you like totally

correctly sort of figured out that like, there was this whole dimension to life that we were, yeah, like missing out on show the health aspects of it, but just the like beautiful, like physical poetry of like you, like in the last lockdown in the first one, I mean, you like figured out how to like, um, juggle a, uh, soccer ball, which I thought was pretty cool.

Um, and you know, and we, we wound up, um, we’ll talk about this show a little bit more, but we, we wound up like, you know, from going from like fucking, yeah, just like drop kick cigarette smoking art students to like going to that show at Parry, the, um, the art show, uh, the, the sport show at Parry, um, saying to each other, like,

fuck, this is so cool. You know, like what a full take. Yeah. Um, so yeah. Um, I think we should get into like, just, just real quick, what are like, what our early sort of memories of sport are. Your dad’s always been into sport. Yeah. So my dad was like a big cricketer. He’s like a pretty standard Aussie bloke. He’s a builder. He loved cricket and he played rugby union

stuff at school as a kid. I don’t think he was ever that good. I think he got smashed around a lot and I know it was a very like brutal, uh, you know, like those kinds of private school kind of all boys schools. Like there’s a very aggressive kind of sporting landscape compared to today. Like what we’re doing. What were your, um, like early experiences with sport, your early experience?

My stuff was weird. Like I didn’t fucking play sport at all. Like I was completely afraid of sport. I was like picking up rubbish instead of doing sport, you know? And then it was an option for your school sport. That was like Thursday afternoon school. Like you and, uh, what was her name? Miss Samuels and all the like weird kids would pick up rubbish whilst everyone else went and played soccer

or basketball or swimming or surfing or whatever. Yeah. And, uh, like that was fine. Like, that’s just like who I guess I like thought I was. Like I was like a fucking nerd and like, I had like a clumpy, weird body, not like a beautiful, like blonde Aussie, like surfers body, you know? I was like, I don’t play sport. Yeah. Uh, yeah. My, my, my experience was very similar.

Like I was definitely in, in South Africa where I was born, I was in a, uh, a bit of a sport school and like, we had, we had to play sports. So like one of them for me was cricket. Um, and I remember like, uh, actually, do you know what? I don’t know if we had to play. I think my

parents like made me play or something or they thought it would be good for me or something. My, my, my only memory of that is, um, me sucking so much as a batsman that they put me up very, at the very beginning of every game to like, um, up against their fastest bowler who would just bowl me out immediately. And I would go and sit on the stands and watch for the rest of the afternoon

while my like friends played that kicked off a long, uh, period in my life of like no sport, like zero team sport enjoyment. Yeah. I remember getting put in goals once as like a 12 year old or a 10 year old. And I had this big fucking, uh, like lurid green Jersey. And I remember letting in like seven, eight, nine goals, something like that. I don’t know why my coach, my coach was this

dude, Seamus. I don’t know why he kept me in. Like maybe we just all had to do a rotation, but yeah, I remember that. He didn’t want you running. He didn’t want to see you run.

Something like that. So yeah, it’s funny. And then that will be good enough for like many years of not playing sport again. And then just as an aside, like, I think we can wrap this chapter up, but one day I was going past the local, like, uh, rugby league school and I was about 13, 14 and nothing in my life had changed. I hadn’t gotten more athletic or anything. I was in the car with

my dad in the back of his fucking truck. And I said, can I play? Like, can you sign me up for rugby? And he was like, okay, sure. Like he fucking loves like rugby league. And I played for a few years and I was okay. Like I was pretty shit, but yeah, I don’t know. I’ve never quite like unpacked why I wanted to do that. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can save that one for your therapist.

Okay. So this I think is a pretty common experience, especially for the type of people that we know in the art world and maybe for some of you listening, uh, like just being reluctant to or avoiding sport altogether in your early life. And yeah, maybe coming back around to it, like in our twenties.

Yeah. Um, so I think like when, once we got into high school, there was definitely this feeling of like a dichotomy set up. Like for me, it felt like it was art as opposed to sport, right? Like I had made my decision. I was going to be a guitarist instead of a soccer player. What do you think led us to like

form that opinion and to like hold onto it for so long?

I think like when you were just saying before, it was funny. We both had these like, like, like spectacular failures and like, that’s such a human thing, right? That like you stick with what you’re good at and you run away from like what you’re bad at. Like that feels like, like that would be a pretty common root of it. Right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That’s a really good

point actually. And then just in high school, like, you know, you don’t, you don’t just, you’re not capable of living in this like wonderfully gray, like complex. I’ll take a bit of this. I’ll take a bit of that. Like, you know, everything does feel like a defining, uh, like dichotomy when you’re like 14, 15. Right. So true. Yeah. We feel very, we feel very, very, um, like powerfully that we have

to identify ourselves as a certain type of person. Exactly. And I, I sold all, like, I went all in on like the arts when I was like, as soon as I saw that that was an identity, I could grab like some fucking super trendy kids came to my school and I was like, okay, like, and just grabbed it with both hands. And that entailed rejecting like the footy players. And it was funny because the way we would

sit at my school was literally, there was like a big, like, what would you call it? It’s like the bottom of the fucking pyramid. Uh, there was like the, the ground level and it was like a hundred footy players. And then we were like up on the second level, like the smaller, like, you know, we’d positioned ourselves as this fucking like intelligentsia, you know?

Like the educated middle class, the educated, like narrow band of the pie, you know?

Okay. Let’s fast forward to today. So we’re sitting in the pub and like you or I will say something like, uh, sport is beautiful. It’s an art form. Um, and if we’re not met with, uh, like derision or contempt, uh, you put it well, I think we would be met with like this kind of

perplexed, uh, like raised eyebrow, like really? Yeah. Um, like, do you want to like, do you want to maybe just like put yourself in those people’s shoes and, and try and imagine, um, what those, where those reactions come from? Yeah. Yeah. So like we did mention a little bit that, you know, I reckon most of the time it’s going to be raised in some like, or like it will have begun

in some kind of personal lived experience, probably when you were young, you know, that you were just excluded or you just did bad or for whatever reason. Yeah. I’m sure for most of us, that’s where it starts if we have that opinion. And then I guess like the thing that I sympathize with right now, and it’s pretty funny because, you know, I’ve been a pretty serious sports fan,

like just watching sports, but the last year I haven’t watched any and it’s just boring to me right now. So I reckon that’s legitimately like the second one. Like it’s boring to watch for these people. Yeah. So yeah, there is something going on after all, like sport is a mass entertainment, whereas contemporary art, uh, is niche. Yeah. I mean, there’s something about like,

well, there’s something about just like subcultures. Right. And like I was saying when I, when I was like, when I found this like subculture at my school, which was like skateboarders and like people that loved, like, I don’t know, like indie music, like for the first time, or like, you know, we would go to the gallery of modern art in, uh, Brisbane for the first time or whatever. And it

just felt like I was, you know, like I was like an outcast and like a fucking lonely and weird. Like it’s a classic, like sad indie kid story. And you find solace in these subcultures. Like we all do. Yeah. Um, and that feels really like personal and private and powerful. And, uh, I guess like,

yeah, like we define ourselves in opposition to, you know, just these kind of, what would you call it? Like fucking, it’s so different. It’s so oppositional to like a hundred thousand people at like a big footy stadium. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, totally. Yeah. That’s, that’s, it’s, um, it, you know, it always feels good to belong to a group of, well, for most people,

it feels good to belong to something, you know? Um, and I think, um, we can get into like what, what might like split you into one of those two like streams. There’s definitely, so like, we definitely know of some artists who like, you know, are into sport. I definitely know like a bunch of people like it, you know, just in the kind of like inner West Sydney, like music slash art

scene who are like, you know, posting like, yeah, we’re at the AFL and like talking about their teams and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we wanted to talk about this idea of like some kind of bodily, like determinism. Uh, we’re wondering, um, you know, like what does a sport person’s body look

like versus what does an artist’s body look like? Um, you know, like I think, um, there’s always some kind of, uh, like what you were saying earlier, you know, we, we, we want to do stuff that we’re good at and you can be, you can be predisposed to be good at sport. Right. I remember seeing the guys in, uh, the kind of like cool boys who were all like soccer mad in high school. Um,

and they all just had these like athletes bodies, like naturally or otherwise, you know, they had a couple of friends who were like, like not so well equipped, uh, in that department. And they were like, they were like, you know, like underlings in that sort of world. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

I think, so are we saying then that like, um, you know, like your, your body determines your, like your artistic, like future? Like, I don’t feel uncomfortable saying that. Like there’s no doubt, like we have, you know, like we just had the Olympics or whatever. And everyone keeps talking about like Phelps has this massive, whatever the fuck he has. What does he have? Like massive feet

or some massive something. Yeah. He’s got webbed toes. He’s got webbed toes or some shit. He’s got gills, mate. He’s got gills. And, uh, um, like there’s no doubt, there is no doubt. Like the way you look, the way your body is for sure, like, uh, pushes you to be more likely to do certain things like in your life, you know? Yeah. For sure. I think, yeah. If you’re, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t

want to say that, but like, just like, as an aside, like you’re, you’re probably like, there are lots of beautiful artists. I was going to say, but like, if you’re more ugly, you’re probably going to be more interesting. Right. I agree. I happen to agree. Yeah. Yeah. I think most people agree. Agree there. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I mean, also like, you know, if you, if you look feminine,

like you will be treated a certain way. If you’re like a person of color, you’ll be treated a certain way again. Like, you know, like your looks really do determine like the outcome of your life to some extent. Um, maybe not as much as, you know, let’s say your parents’ income. Um, but yeah. Yeah. But

anyway. Um, so yeah, I think, I think like, there’s definitely some kind of like determinism at play going on, you know, like all these, like what I, what I kept thinking when you, we were talking earlier about like your, uh, uh, your school sport alternative option was like to pick up rubbish. Like I would just love to see like, where are they now? Like just a snapshot of all those

people. Like, what are they all doing? Like how many of those are like sculptors now? That’s funny. Um, yeah, sure. I guess like one thing that I wanted to say, just like you were kind of talking about like, you know, like non-white bodies or like non-traditional bodies and stuff. Yeah. It’s kind of interesting because they always has to be like framed against some kind of ideal.

And like, I remember I was telling you, like when I was in high school, I had to like fucking walk down the street or like walk down the hallway with like this really jockey dude. His name was Cody. And he had like, you know, a really like athletic young man’s body. And I said, I had this like uncomfortable, like teenager’s body and he had like blonde hair and blue eyes. And he had that,

like, you know, that like really nice, like sweet scene, like sweep that like 14 year old boys are always like, like, like pushing across their forehead. And I had this like big messy fro that I had like, never done, like done any, never even thought to do anything. And we just like went down the hall and I felt so like oppositional to him. Like, yeah. Like I felt like, you know,

he was the archetypical, he was like the godly, like classic Aussie white, uh, body. And I was like, you know, lesser in, in, you know, I was always standing next to him or he was the definition that I would like, could not live up to. Yeah, sure. And I think that’s what, like,

kind of what, like is implicit in what you were saying about like, you know, these other bodies, uh, kind of sidelined in certain ways in opposition to like the mainstream. Some ideal. Yeah, sure. I mean, I think like, I think like you and I definitely, um, resist the idea of, of, you know, an ideal in that kind of sense, like this kind of opposition to like, you know,

like, yeah, women, people of color and stuff like that. Like, you know, we, we obviously like, um, we don’t give a fuck about like ideals, like bodily or otherwise in terms of like someone’s worth anyway. Of course it’s like, but like, even if you resist it, like it still gets at you, right? Like it’s still there. Yeah. It’s everywhere. Yeah. It’s everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. It’s on,

it’s yes, it’s everywhere. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It’s on the TV. It’s on YouTube, whatever. Sure. Yeah, for sure. Uh, okay. Let’s, let’s move along.

So, um, we’re going to bring this, uh, we’re going to like fold this into like talking about

a show in a second, but I think a nice way to get there is to talk about something that, you know, a lot more people who are artistic probably do kind of like get on board with, which is like the aesthetic of, of sports slash street wear. Like, like what about the clothing of sports do you think is so compelling for artists? Yeah. Fuck. I don’t know. Like right

now I’m wearing like these stupid, like red, like champion basketball shorts. Their brand is beyond skateboards, which is like a really cool skate shop in like Perth. And it’s funny that they have like appropriated this like super sporty look, which like at a certain point, like I imagine like

skateboarding would have been like super opposed to wearing like mainstream sport cuts or whatever. Sure. Um, but now I guess like skateboarding is a tough one because it’s always sat at this like really interesting play between like fashion and contemporary aesthetics and like, is it a sport? Yeah. Like I guess Japan actually won skateboarding in the Olympics. That’s kind of cool.

Oh, I did that. I didn’t, I didn’t know that. That’s cool. That’s pretty cool. But I don’t like, I don’t even understand what skateboarding in the Olympics is, but like, yeah, I don’t know what that means. I mean, what, what’s your take on it? Like, what have you seen of like, you definitely see like a shitload of like sportswear, like at openings these days, like when you’re allowed to go to them.

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I can tell you from my own perspective, like, yeah, like it, you know, when we met, I was definitely like Doc Martin’s like, you know, um, long hair guitarist with like absolutely zero interest in sport. And today I’m like, like, I actually just ordered my first ever pair of, uh, secondhand Nike Air Maxes from, from Depop. I said, I sent you a picture last night.

I was like, these are these? And you were like, get those. Um, and yeah, I mean, I think like, I don’t know for me, I don’t know if, I don’t know if I have overcomplicated it for myself, but like, like the whole inclusion of sport into my life has felt like, um, a way to, you know, explore

what is possible for me to like feel, um, and identify as like, I think, I think I would be, I think I would be lying if I said that we only played soccer just for the personal health private kicks, you know, like, like, like I, I also like got, you know, some kind of like, I, I, whether or

not like I got into it for this reason, um, I think is besides the point, I think I have to acknowledge that like, I got some kind of like positive social, um, like benefit from like, even just for myself from like surprising people, you know, like about now, now I’m into sport. Yeah. And I think like,

I’ll never forget like seeing, um, like, uh, spike, uh, like a friend and like a musician of mine, like playing, uh, guitar on stage. And like, I had always, I had never really noticed his clothes before until one day I saw him playing with these like brand new, like shiny white Nikes on. I was like, Whoa, like so sporty dude. Yeah. Um, so yeah, just, does that answer your question?

Yeah. Kind of. I mean, I, I, I love to hear that. I think that’s really cool. And I just wanted to add one thing. Like, I remember you like bought your first pair of boots or whatever and they were like white and blue. Right. And they were like pretty expensive. Like you spent like an extra 30 or 40 bucks and then you bought these like long blue socks, like to go. Yeah. Football boots. Yeah.

Yeah. Football boots. And these big fucking, uh, like blue socks, which were like way over the top for what you needed, but it was like this nod to like this kind of beautiful loop of like, you know, if you, if you get, want to play sport now, like as like art artists, sport players, like we’re not

just sport players. We’re like art sport players. And we think the socks are cool. And like, yeah, I remember like one of your mates that came and played soccer and had like vintage fucking boots on, like vintage soccer boots. Like it’s so stupid and cool. And it’s just like beautiful, like loop of fashion the way that like, I don’t know for you maybe. And for us, there was like a

sense of like authenticity where it’s like, we wouldn’t wear the sports stuff without like knowing how to like juggle a football. Sure. Yeah. We definitely felt a little bit like when I first got them, I would like, I think you and I both were a little bit like, you know, are we out of our depth here? Like in terms of this fit, you know, but I mean, I think like I, whatever, like this is one of the

cool things about fashion. Like I think Spike, if he has never kicked a soccer ball in his life, like he is like, there’s no doubt he’s entitled to wear as much fucking football gear as he wants. Like as long as it looks cool, you know? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, there’s a fun thing to like acknowledge that many of the fucking artists that might be decked out in

like traditionally, you know, super sport focused brands may probably also hate sport. Like, and that’s like a contradiction that like fashion can handle and art can handle. Sure. Yeah. It’s cool. So like there’s, there’s a strong connection, like obviously to, uh, basketball culture with like hip hop culture. And like, I think that has, has persisted like all the way

through to like today with like totally unrelated things. Um, so I think that, that like might be a good way to explain like partially what’s going on, like associating at least some sport with cool, you know, like on a, on a street sense. True. Um, no one’s like repping like cricket whites,

like exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No one’s got like, yeah. Lacoste shoe. Uh, uh, uh, what’s it? Lacrosse shoes on, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But like people are like wearing basketball shoes that were like, you know, allegedly like designed for playing basketball on. They’re wearing them to like go in, like, you know, eat some fast food and like, you know, go shopping or whatever.

Like trail running. Well, yeah. Trail running is kind of a weird one, but like these fucking Solomon’s or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Okay. I get you. Like the sport has to be cool for it to like make its way into fashion. Okay. And the other, the other, like, uh, the other line that we should probably say is that like, there was, there’s always been like a, um, like this is

kind of opposite to basketball, right? There’s like been polo and like tennis stuff, uh, which is for like, you just to like paint a picture, like, let’s say a rich, like white family, you know, they’ve got their own like status game they’re playing where it’s like, you know, I’ve got to be like clean and like, like a feet. Yes. Um, that’s a good point. Yeah. I think like cricket stuff definitely comes into it

in some angles, but you know, we’re not, we’re not talking about like what people wear. We’re talking about what’s cool today. So I think that’s, that’s where we can leave it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that’s a nice, uh, a nice summary. Okay. Let’s, uh, let’s move along.

Okay. So last year, uh, we went to a really great show at Pari called sports show. Um, and we’ll put the link to like all this in the description. It’s, and there’s some really great documentation photos of all this. Uh, so yeah, like follow along if you want, or just check it

out later. This show meshes really well. I think with what we’ve been talking about today, um, it, it felt at once like, uh, a sort of a genuine love for sport, uh, as well as an interrogation of that relationship that we have been discussing today, this relationship between contemporary art

and contemporary artists and sport. I mean, it’s fucking, it’s a beautiful show. There’s some stuff, there’s some funny stuff in like, do you know what that, like, what’s that? It’s like the title. Are you looking at like the website right now? Like the, the sports show, like how would you describe that? Like effect on the text? Like it’s a really like a vintage Jersey. Yeah. It’s, it’s got like a

basketball. Yeah. It’s a classic, like basketball, like American NHL, NBA kind of like font with like square letters, like varsity jacket font. Yeah. And I remember like DMing you this because it was so exciting because it felt like the reason I was excited to see like a show at Pari, which is like,

you know, a really important, cool space, but there was about sports, you know, it just felt like, I don’t know. Why was that so juicy to me? Like it felt like that, that wasn’t really allowed to be done in the past. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it’s just such a clever, it was such a clever programming and curatorial decision. We thought, cause you know, like we, we just hadn’t seen any, we hadn’t seen any

soccer balls in, in these galleries in, in our whole lives, basically. Like we, we, you know, we had spent like our whole, you know, adult lives once we’d met each other, like, or whatever, we spent the whole time knowing each other, never seeing any sport in a gallery. Maybe we hadn’t known to look, you know, but, um, I think like it was just, it felt like it feels like the kind of

like, um, brilliant idea that people have when they’re like a former startup company. It’s just like, there was a niche that like, no one had, no one had thought to even like consider, you know? Yeah. And it’s such a, it’s such a ripe relationship to like explore, um, you know, art versus or art and sport. It’s dangerous, man. I think it’s dangerous and it’s scary. And that’s

why it hadn’t come up a lot. I think exactly for those reasons that all throughout the art community, I can imagine all the way up to like the big fucking, the big dogs, like the big decision makers. I am not, wouldn’t be surprised if there was still an insecurity and like, uh, distrust and

discomfort with sport and the sporting body. Yeah. They’ve also got the like weak artists’ bodies. Yeah. And like the sporting public, you know, even though like there’s always this funny, like, you know, call like to engage the public in that way. And like, in a, in a funny way, like these public, uh, programming, you know, figures like fucking wish they could like have access to,

you know, a sporting crowd or like a crowd that cares about something as much as like my dad cares about the tigers, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I would have loved to see just one picture of like a fully grown man with two kids, like crying and like his team losing all winning, like just to like, just to, just to drive home that like mass appeal, like dominance that

sport has, you know, cause like Pari are, you know, they’re fucking cool, but they’re underdogs, right? Like, and, and maybe that’s what like works so well for them, like in this, especially in this show, like, um, that kind of, that sort of stark contrast between, you know, like, yeah, the ANZ stadium and the stadium that was built just down the road. Actually, they talk about that in the show

note in their, um, not show notes in their room sheet, uh, versus yeah, these like sort of gatherings of like alternative, um, people who are all like really sensitive and like maybe are not that into sport or like, like, you know, had the same kind of experience that we outlined at the beginning of the show. I just had a thought and like, I don’t know how like able we are to get into this, but we’re kind

of painting this picture of like the feeble artist and, and the like, you know, art as a place of solace. But I know like a lot of people and I know like, you know, my sister and friends, like a lot of women, a lot of people that like, don’t fit, like I do like jujitsu and that’s like a really like nerdy sport. It’s like a nerdy sport for older people. And I guess like, I also want to like

acknowledge and like, I know your sister is kind of in this position too. Like people that don’t fit the norms of like this, like Chad sport player that we’ve been kind of alluding to, but find like an incredible amount of like meaning and passion and like power and discovery through it. And like, I don’t want to like make it seem like we’re like falsely dichotomizing it when there are,

especially today, like all these beautiful layers in between. And like, I played like mixed football for a long time in the UK and like found that very fucking, like that was like a cornerstone of my, like, you know, social life there. So yeah, absolutely. Just to acknowledge that. And I could imagine like the thing that spurred is I was imagining like this opening and I think this

opening happened during COVID. I was just reading and they had to like meet in the park or whatever, but I could imagine some very arty looking, you know, people, but also I just had this like vision of them, like sharing stories about playing sport as well. Yeah. And like, I’m sure that exists, you know? Absolutely. I think like, that’s the, that’s the, like, I think quite a happy resolution

for us to like wind up at. You know, we, we kind of grew up in this world where it was one or the other. And, and I think today, like, you know, we know so many people who, who derive so much pleasure from this stuff and like, you know, feelings of like, you know, community and like understanding and like

identity with these things, which like maybe don’t even have like any bearing on what their interest is, whether they’re a banker or, you know, a nurse or an artist, whatever. But like, you know, we, I think we, uh, we’re, uh, what am I trying to say? I think like we’ve, we’ve, you know,

outlined or like we’ve arrived at this like conclusion that like, you know, it’s, it’s no longer quite so black and white. Like there is still a fight happening though. Right. Like there is still a fight for this. Like, it’s true. Like, I’m sure sport has opened up. I’m sure it’s more accessible and more diverse, but like, you know, as you’re saying, like bankers, like I also played

like when I was in that mixed football team against like, yeah, teams of like all lawyers, like all hyper aggressive, fucking angry men, like trying to fucking kill you after work in the city. So like sport, I feel still is mostly that like just statistically. Um, but like, it’s almost like

these people that were like sidelined through sport, whether it’s like your gender or, you know, your body or you’re too fucking quiet to like, I don’t know, get a place on the team have kind of like fought for it and like, you know, fight of like demanded that space. And that’s why it’s so, I don’t know. Is that kind of, you’re getting it? Like there’s this kind of like beautiful,

like gray area, but people have like fought for that for themselves, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Those people continue to fight for, for that. Like my sister was telling me about like, you know, like insisting and like, and like helping shepherd in like the use of like proper pronouns, like for people on their, um, AFL team, you know, like, which was a big thing.

Like, you know, some people were like resistant to it and a lot of people were like cool about it. Right. Like, um, okay. So, um, I think, uh, we can start to like wrap this up now. Um, we’ve kind of wound up in this really nice, like, uh, awareness of the, all of the beautiful,

complicated gray areas, uh, in this topic. It’s probably a big enough topic to do a whole podcast just about, but, um, we are a Sydney based contemporary art podcast. So we’re going to talk about some work in, uh, we’re going to talk about something in particular, just in relation to

this now. Um, what have you got for me? Yeah. So I thought it’d be cool if we both like just picked one that, that spoke to us. The one that I remember from that show that I really dug was by, uh, two artists, Samia Saeed and Kumbha Samega Janna. It’s called the indifference of bystanders, uh,

a heavyweight stitched from 2020. It’s like a 25 minute video. And so it’s like a two channel video. It was like two screens on the back wall of the gallery, uh, in front of the screens was like three or maybe it was two like black jigsaw mats. They’re like, uh, little mats that you can put

together to do like whatever you want, like, you know, grappling or yoga or whatever, sport mats. And yeah, I just found, there was also some like poems on the ground in front of them. And I really liked this, like, I don’t know, I’m like a sucker for that kind of, cause I find video art can be so like difficult, but I’m a real sucker for like a bit of an environmental,

what would you call that? Like a bit of a hook? Yeah. You know, like the video is expanding from, you know, just being on the screen. And I’m also now kneeling on this mat that has a texture. And I remember, I can’t remember what was in the poems, but I remember something about like a Siggy and she was like, bet her mom that she could beat her up or whatever. Um, and yeah, I’m just looking at the

still now. It’s been like nearly a year. So I don’t fully remember what happens in the video, but it looks like, uh, uh, Samir is, is looking at the camera or whoever’s in the video. And I’m just looking at the room sheet. There’s this really, uh, a cool description that I’ll just read.

Samir’s film explores domestic labor as a sport, recognizing women, particularly her mother in her everyday life. The home is an arena, her body is an athlete and her chores as a sport. Samir uses her big fat body as strength and protection to hold her mother through the labor she has witnessed her endure, but never be championed for. Like, I think that’s such a

beautiful sentiment. And I think there’s so much that like, I don’t know, I felt so much of that toward like my mother growing up and my mother is like an athlete and she has kind of like reinvented herself through her sports practice. Um, that’s kind of like liberated her in this way. Like not only emotionally, but also like psychologically and now economically. Um, and I just love that

like sentiment of like, uh, it’s a real poetic, uh, like, uh, description, like she’s witnessed her endure, but never be championed for like, it’s such a like, uh, radiant, uh, vision or like, uh, conception of like, you know, this like, uh, devaluing of women’s labor. And then to use that

sense of like champion, like, you know, how much kudos the dude, like the sports dude on the podium gets, you know, in culture, like, it’s just this like glaring, uh, imbalance. And I thought that work, like really explored it in a powerful way. Great. Yeah. What an omission, what an omission. Um,

I, I seem to remember that it was like the, the video was like a sort of choreographed wrestling between the two, um, the artists and their mother. Yeah. Or maybe, maybe the two artists. Um, actually, do you know what? I think their mother might be credited as the other artists that you’re

talking about. Uh, okay. So my, my pick from that show was, um, the field by Elvis Richardson. Uh, it’s a, uh, uh, like a 120 centimeter diameter table with like, I don’t know, 200, 300 little, uh, gold trophy figurines. So yeah, so it’s like a, it’s like 300 trophies on a table.

Um, I’m just getting the, uh, the picture up so I can have something to talk to. Um, I, I, I remember feeling like, uh, like quite stunned by it at the time. Like it’s just, it’s such a, it’s such a fun, um, uh, uh, type of work where it’s like a gathering, you know, it’s not like this kind of, um, construction or, uh, a fabrication of something like there were other works in the show

that were like completely made by the artist. Um, this is like a sort of found object piece. Um, and I think just the, the, like the, um, the, the ingenuity of that idea, just this like very simple idea done, like some kind of excess of, of something. Um, it really tickled me and it made

me laugh and like, and really engage with it. I think underneath, uh, the table, there’s like a TV scrolling, all of the like name plates that were pulled off of all the trophies. Like, you know, it’s like Brandon Harris, 1998, like under 16s, like football or whatever. I’m just making this up. Like, um, it was such a fun, like exploration of like sport as a domestic,

you know, pastime. Like, um, like you’ve got this, like, you know, the, the trophy in the room sheet, they’re, they’re talking about like heraldic devices and like glory and stuff, but also like, this is something you give to your kid, like, you know, to like give, give them a good pat on the back. Like, yeah. And people, they’re cheap, you know, that, yeah, they’re probably like five bucks each. Yeah. People keep them for years, like years longer than maybe they ought to, but you know,

it reminds you of something, I think personally, I don’t know if I ever won a trophy like this, but you know, it was cool. Like what, what a sort of a treasure to see, um, uh, you know, in an art gallery. I think that’s a really nice, like that, that moment where you talked about like this kind of domestic sporting kind of, yeah, like pride, you know, that is so powerful and it’s

funny because I do think of like, you know, you’re playing, like we were playing like three aside with like a couple of artists and it was like a super low stakes game, you know, by every, every measure. But in that moment, you know, like, and that’s kind of like what these little dinky trophies feel like, like it’s this kind of, yeah, very personal, quiet,

domestic pride. Yeah. It’s cool. Great. Okay. That, uh, just about wraps it up for our sports segment, uh, for this week. Uh, stick around for hung up artists of the week.

Who’ve you got for us? Cool. This week we’re talking about Amy Jane Parker. I found out about her when I was scrolling through, uh, the latest edition of Un Magazine, which is like contemporary art magazine from Melbourne. And, uh, this work caught my eye, uh, and the title slash materials

list I thought was quite funny as well. I’ll read you the work and then I’ll give you a little description. So the title of the work is plastic, petroleum, fecal matter of Antarctic krill, carbon, symbiotic cultures of bacteria and yeast, inkjet print, moth, water, glazed earthenware.

Fantastic. There was something super cool. So I saw this one work and it’s basically like a big plastic, like tub, but I guess you could like soak clothes in or like move fucking, I don’t know, move houses with houses with. And it’s got this like glistening piece of like, yeah, I guess this is the glazed earthenware. And it’s got like these like kind of wild colors. Like it almost looks like,

uh, like when you invert the colors on your phone, like the greens and like dark blues and purples and reds. And it’s this kind of big higgledy piggledy. It almost looks like a piece of landscape from like, um, what’s that game where you like paint the models, the fucking super hardcore. Oh, Warhammer. It looks like a piece of like Warhammer terrain to me. And then it’s just like sitting in like a

couple inches of this, like dirty brown water. And then like top left, there’s just a moth like floating in the water. Fantastic. Beautiful. And this was such an alluring image. And especially now that we’re kind of like confined to seeing, um, work on our computers, like this one really,

really did well. And then like, I won’t go into her other work, but I looked through her website, which we’ll link to, and I just found it really kind of like impressive because there’s all sorts of like cool themes and aesthetic ideas she’s exploring here. And like, she’s been at it for ages and there’s this real like consistency and like building of, you know, those ideas that you can see in her

website. Yeah. Um, which just made me think like, yeah, it just really gave me like a great picture of her as an artist, which is, you know, not all artists websites are that, um, you know, capable. Sure. Yeah, sure. Okay, great. Uh, stick around for who’s canceled.

Oh yeah, dude. Okay. I got a pretty good one for you. Okay. It’s a bit of a vintage one. Okay. So do you remember Barry Spur? Barry Spur?

Uh, I just Googled him. I actually have never seen this guy. Oh, you know what? Yes, I do remember this guy. Yes, we were studying when, uh, under his regime. So he already got canceled and he used to read me like Robert Browning poems at the bottom of like an old lecture hall in his fucking gown. He was like the last guy to wear the gown. Yeah. And he’s

already been canceled for being like racist in like the old garden. He got super canceled. Yeah. He got super canceled. But I was funny because I was like, I went for a walk with my sister last week and I went through like a street library and I found like, uh, how to read poems, like how to read a certain type of poem by Barry Spur book. Wow. Someone had put it in the library. Wow.

I thought it’d be a cool moment because we could like recancel him, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Let’s, uh, let’s re, uh, re let’s double down on this. I’ve just found an article in newmatilda.com. Yeah. Where, where are they now? Barry Spur. Oh, that’s cool. That was going to be my question. Yeah. Where are they now? Barry Spur, ex-professor, racist, misogynist, turned literary editor.

Fuck. Okay. Let me just read on a little bit. Okay. Close followers of New Matilda will remember that a few years ago we broke a rather explosive story about Barry Spur, a professor of poetry based at the university of Sydney. We were there at the time, several years of Barry’s email correspondence to and from a close friend and a few colleagues had been leaked to us. And so we published them

admittedly to mixed reviews from our supporters and critics alike. They revealed among other things that Barry had a pretty dim view of Aboriginal people, Muslims and Asians. Um, it goes on, uh, yada, yada, yada. He, he, he like got into a bit of a, like, uh, he kind of dug his hole deeper

once everyone started, uh, canceling him. Um, but, uh, what is he doing now? I’m trying to like, I think I skipped to the end and it looks like an artist has like a poet has submitted a poem into quadrant. Yeah. Like, uh, I guess it’s like a, I feel like I’ve heard it, heard of it before.

Some kind of literary journal. Yeah. And she says a few days later, I get an email directly from Barry Spur saying my poem was more of a diatribe than a poem. Thank you for sending this submission, Ms. Chia. It is more a diatribe than a poem. So it is not suitable for publication in our poetry section. Yours sincerely, Barry Spur. I think we can read this poem, dude.

I think we should read this. I think this will be our, um, I think this will be our goodbye for this week. And we can, um, we can let the listeners decide whether it’s a diatribe or a poem. Uh, thanks so much for tuning in guys. Uh, I’m Matt. I’m Aidan. This was fun, man. It was nice to talk to you. Yeah. Nice to talk to you. Uh, yeah, definitely look us up on Instagram at hungup.au.

Uh, and anything that we referred to in the, uh, show will be in the show notes. Uh, cool. Do you want to read the poem? This is The Zombie Apocalypse by Kim Chia. Okay. I’ll read this poem. The Zombie Apocalypse. Or we can read like a stanza each. That would be cute. Okay. Sure. I’ll go first. Their prophet speaks through a Fox News reader. They wear red hats and follow the leader. They feed on

hate and speak in scripts. They stab themselves with the words he spits. The modern zombie infects through retweets. Slack jaws talk civil wars and chaos in the streets. Fear of the bad guy, greed and fake news rots off their skin and keeps them confused. Planting weeds and calling them flowers, their guru

shouts out from ivory towers. His words drop down to tell them they’re free. They lose their food stamps while he eats KFC. A reality star spews propaganda, uses hate speech and calls it banter. The zombie apocalypse. They’re after our brains. They limp through the wasteland to sell their campaign.

Great again, they chant like bleating sheep, tripping over their sense to fall at his feet. Don’t try to save them. Turn and run. Board up your houses. They love their guns. Is there a cure? An inoculation? A chance to recover a mutant nation? Broken bodies carry poisoned minds. Grabbed by the pussy and given a line. God bless America. No, really, it’s dire. Save the zombies.

Tell him he’s fired.

Cool. That’s a wrap, dude. That’s a wrap, brother. Nice one. Good show. Have a good night. Yeah, you too. We could cancel, we could cancel some peanut paddocks.

Why? What did he do? He is fucking selling like prawn sandwiches for like 60 bucks. For 60 dollars, really? How do you get like two of them for 60 bucks? Wow. Or whatever, I don’t know. And like, you could cancel like eating mussels out of oysters outside of a sink.

Oh yeah, when was that? That was pretty funny. Was that on brown cardigan or something? Yeah, that was on brown cardigan, yeah. Alright. We could cancel Josh Nile. She’s fucking bad. She’s so canceled. We could ironically cancel Josh Nile and like call him like a weasel and shit. A weasel. I want to eat his food. He looks super weasel. He does look weasel.

Yeah, you end it with like, but I actually really want to eat his food. I don’t know. Yeah, okay. Alright, cool. Let’s cancel. Let’s cancel. Um, the residents of Paddington for eating. You can take away fish. Uh, take away, um. Oysters. Oysters. Ha ha ha. Ah, fuck. Other veg.

That was us though. Like so long ago. Yeah, but it’s just, it plays out so much more different. Like, incidents of the fucking pandemic. Yeah, yeah. Choo, choo, choo. Yeah, it’s so different. Okay, cool. Alright, cool. Did you see that on brown cardigan? Yeah, I did, yeah. You can remember that. Yeah, I did. Awesome. Alright, you ready?

Fucking ready, dude. Alright, let’s, let’s introduce ourselves. Sure, man. Uh, hey. You’re listening to Hung Up.

Show notes

This week we’re on about why arty people hate sports. Some points we discuss are high school sport, sporty bodies versus arty bodies, the Pari Sport Show, and sporty streetwear. Pari Sports Show https://pariari.org/programming/04-sportsshow/ Artist of the week: https://amyjaneparker.info/contact https://newmatilda.com/2020/01/20/where-are-they-now-barry-spurr-ex-professor-racist-misogynist/ Artists mentioned on IG: Koumbah Samega-Janneh @x_x_x_wife Samiye Sayed @browneye1111 Elvis Richardson @elvis.richardson